Labeling windows under restoration
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DBowers



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Weare, NH

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:49 pm    Post subject: Labeling windows under restoration Reply with quote

John:
Just completed a restoration project (3 doublehung windows) and I am looking for a good way to mark the sash as to their location, i.e., 101, 102, etc. I had marked each one of removal and found that during the stripping and and sanding that most of my marking was, shall we say, obliterated. What have you found that works?
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2921
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good idea to mark all window parts as they are removed. I always mark the parts in the same place, so I know right where to look for the markings later on in the project. I try to make all the marks on back or hidden surfaces as near the left end of the meeting rails of the sash possible. This works for almost all parts: sash, parting beads, stop beads, casings, etc.

I always mark the sash along the outer vertical side edge where there is no paint, and typically (for double hung sash), where they will not be painted later in the project. Ordinarily I'll simply use a carpenter's pencil, and indent the wood a litlle while writing. The indented numbers will usually survive a light sanding or scraping that might be needed in this location. If I suspect the surface will get heavy scraping, or need to be planed down later, I'll inscribe the numbers with an awl, sticking in into the wood 1/16" to 1/8" deep in a series of holes that form the numbers. This is OK for hidden surfaces like the side edges of sash, but I would not use it on finish surfaces that will show.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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DBowers



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Weare, NH

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:57 pm    Post subject: Marking windows Reply with quote

John:

I did mark mine with a carpenters pencil on the unpainted rail but it was still largely obliterated. Someone before me had marked the top sashs with roman numerals using the tip of a screw driver that remained intact. Did not help much for the bottom sash. I will probably use something that will leave an indentation that is not easily sanded out as suggested.

Good news is there were only 3 windows to figure out.. :D

Dave
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the customer's permission, I use 1/4 inch number/letter stamps on the unpainted stile side which faces and slides on the jamb. The numbers of the sash and openings are determined by the architect or customer.

I often use magic marker on the glass to mark the sash during removal, always marking in the same spot, say the top left corner. I have never had a problem removing the ink

......Jade
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DBowers



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Weare, NH

PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:47 pm    Post subject: Sash identification Reply with quote

Jade:

Since my earlier post I have aquired a set of steel number stamps and am using in the same manner. It is a good way to idenify and very durable. As for marking glass I have been using masking tape and marker in much the same way as you are.

Thanks for the assist. Dave
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jade:

Are you still number stamping your sash?

I've recently heard that using Sharpie markers on glass can be cleaned off, but will leave a "shadow" of the mark that can be seen on the installed glass with some lighting situations.

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We mark on the glass with a red, blue or black marker. Red and blue seem to clean off easiest. but have had no complaints abut shadows. gt clean em real good though.

We use the regular card label with wire ties for each sash, wound around a small screw in the the side. which is moved from the side to the glazing rabbit then back to the side of the stile. We purchas the tags from Staples or Office Depot and they have not fallen off. Using the tags we make notes regarding missing or broken glass and special needs that could be overlooked when on the repair table.

It doesn't really matter how or what numbering system is used---only that the way its done is consistant. A typical number of a set of sashes would be 1st 2 or 3 letters of customer name, LL or UL for upper or lower levels, W, E,S,N side, then we number from the inside left (always). Eash sash of a dbl hung window will also have an A or B for upper or lower sash. So on a tag you would see LydULW3A and the date they were tagged. When busy we could easily have fifty sashes in the shop at once in various stages of restoration. We make commitments for installs at time of removal so having a date helps us to make sure there's no sash set aside and forgotten. Did I say that's never happened-------haha I wish.

If there is no glass in sash when removed we will write on side of stile. Actually both stiles if fairly dirty.
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jbmnd93



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found original numbering marks lots of times on restoration projects. Usually chiseled roman numerals on the top edge of the top rail. The marks are deep (so permanent) and roman numerals don't have curves (so easy to chisel with a few quick hammer blows). But sometimes 9 and 11 get confused if you got it upside-down.
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2921
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On some projects I've found three or four different window numbering sequences, sometimes an "original" system that includes all the windows, and then partial sequences that probably relate to later window work. Or, one system to locate storm windows and another system to locate awnings. It can get time consuming to figure it out. On some preservation projects there is a budget for historical research that pays for time to sort it out and analyze what it means, such as some sash were replaced with new, or sash moved from original locations to new locations.

If the original system is not readily apparent, or the architect has not already assigned window numbers, I usually set up my own system with 1xx series for first storey, 2xx for second storey, etc., and starting with the front of the building at the left and going around that entire storey, 101, 102, 103...

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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restocarp



Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Baltimore, Maryland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

We have been using the Dymo M1011 for a couple of years. It is a label maker that uses stainless steel tape. It is pricey and the customer support leaves a lot to be desired, but it stays put throughout the restoration process (ie. steam box, paint booth, etc) and is fairly easy to make and install via screw, wire or cable clamp. It is available through several places.


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Matt
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Andy in NH



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 92
Location: Lyndeborough, NH

PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barring an original (and logically intact) numbering system, we stamp our own and just before delivery put the company seal on it. Folks really seem to like that and it emphasizes that we stand behind our work. In this case, faux grain finish on a job where the customer collected other donor sash so all his windows would be wavy.

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smithsash



Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 94
Location: providence, ri

PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject: Acro Window Numbering Tacks and their sometimes bizarre uses Reply with quote

On a bit of a side note: a traditional solution to permanently organizing storm sash are Acro Numbering Tacks.

In addition these tacks are used for numbering wine racks and bins.

Click below if you'd like to see what must be the most unusual and whimsical use for our reproduction tacks ever devised! (it may take a few seconds to load - then scroll to page 12!)

http://samuelgassmann.com/SamuelGassmann_catalog_uk.pdf

We like to think that we approach the manufacture of all of our hardware as would a watch-maker or jeweler - but really?!

http://www.smithrestorationsash.com/acrowindowtacks.html

Justin Smith
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever numbering system each of us use------you just gotta love a good looking window sash. My Oh My! Thanks Andy for posting the pic.
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Kate



Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin - I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw those Acro number tacks in that posh catalog. That is so cool!

And in case anyone is interested - there's a complete set of Remco brass rectangular number tacks on ebay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290474050350

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Kate

~~ Vinyl is for records, not windows. ~~
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smithsash



Joined: 23 Jan 2010
Posts: 94
Location: providence, ri

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:03 am    Post subject: House Cabachons Reply with quote

Hello Kate,

Pretty wierd, huh? Samuel Gassmann called me from Paris and he is delightful. Very interesting back ground. My favorite quote from him is,
" Your tahhks - zay ahhr Soopa-Stahrz!"


C'est encroyable, n'est pas?

Best regards,

Justin Smith
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