Historic HomeWorks Forum

[jade]

Savogran recently purchased the Sterling-Clark company as well as the rights and ingredients to continue manufacturing their products. Unfortunately, they have decided NOT to continue making OLD TIME PUTTY. What Savogran has left to purchase are seven cases of six quarts. I plan to purchase four cases.

Contact Savogran at 800-225-9872 and ask for Mark.

Mark said OTP has an indefinite shelf life, but I agree with John Leeke that it is limited--perhaps to 2-3 years. I purchased Sterling's last case of 'Prime It' the primer that they suggest using with OTP. Think it is about $8 a quart.

John is researching to locate (or develop?$?$) a comparible product to use in the future.

....Jade

[johnleeke]

Once again we loose another good product as the big corporations buy out the smaller companies in their mad dash to capture the market by consolidation and corporateering.

To their credit, Savogran has a pretty useful line of renovation products, and I have had good experiences with their customer service and technical advice. Let's hope that all continues.

One advantage we have as micro-businesses is that we can jump quicker than the big guys. Jade can jump on the remaining supply of Old-Time Putty. I'll buy a case or two myself.

I'll also begin sampling and testing several of the other glazing compounds out there and let you all know my results through my publications, workshops, and right here on the Historic HomeWorks Forums.

[sswiat]

John:

We discussed caulks and sealants in another post.

Do you think the demands for glazing putty is on a major decrease so companies have less and less interest in producing it anymore?

With all new and replacement windows not using glazing putty I have to imagine that the demand for glazing putty is falling steadily. Other than the restoration industry and general glass replacement on older windows repairs I have to imagine the market is small.

Do you think in the future we will have to work with modern day sealants? I am also not familiar with how glazing putty is manufactured but are there any environmental regulations in producing it which are causing it to be less and less profitable to make?

[johnleeke]

Steve:

You have hit the nail on the head.

Of course, the overall corporateers' program for our economy over the next couple of decades is to eliminate these nitch-markets for all these small-time products, like glazing compound, so consumers will be forced to buy whatever the corporateers decide they can make the most money selling, like whole window units. It is a game to them: capture the market by buying out and closing down their competitors. The game is won when one corporation owns the entire market for everything. They we will pay whatever they want to charge for whatever they want to sell us.

In the meantime we can play their game and search for the remaining glazing compound products we can use. Will we win playing this game? Possibly, at least in the sort-term. In the long-term they will win.

Of course, we can always play the game by our own traditional rules and go back to making our own glazing compound. Some window specialists in Europe are now making their own paint and glazing compound in order to get the consistant best quality their work demands.

[jade]

Check out this web site....
www.glassmart.com/glazing.html

There are linseed oil glazing putty manufacturers in the UK. I'm going to see what it would cost to have it shipped here and what the shelf life is.

Adams Architectural in Iowa manufactureres custom wood windows. They use linseed oil glazing putty (don't mention manufacturer's name). I sent them an email.

Searching.......
........Jade

[jade]

Talked with a company in Texas today that manufactures linseed oil glazing putty. The product number is SM1230 but unfortunately it is not listed on their website. The phone number for Schnee-Morehead is 800-TRUSTSM or 800-878-7876. I am going to email their technical support to get a MSDS.

The down side is that the smallest container is 5 gallons. The price is decent, though--$67.

........Jade

[sswiat]

Jade:

Would they be willing to send a sampling? 5 Gallons is alot to buy to find out it is not a good product.

[jade]

Hi Steve......

I sent an email request for a sample container. It would be great to have the sample for the expo.

I groaned at the thought of mixing a 5 gallon pail!! I buy Old Time Putty in gallon cans. Even though I store the can upside down, the linseed oil ends up at the opening. I shovel the putty out, mix it up then put it back in the can. What a mess!!

.....Jade

[johnleeke]

Jade:

This is excellent research on new sources for putty.

[jade]

It's a frame of mind and a way of life in our business......

So much of it is a mess.......but darn it, it's my mess!! Because a sense of humor has sustained me through my many years I make pretend when mixing a gallon of putty by hand. Though I don't have a frilly apron, I can do a mean imitation of the late great Julia Child that rivals that of Dan Akroyd while mixing and slamming and cursing the putty........

...Jade

[johnleeke]

Also test and consider:

Dap Painter's Putty 53



Ingredients include, but may not be limited to: Calcium Carbonate, Linseed Oil, Titanium Dioxide

(Dap 33 Glazing product contains: Calcium Carbonate, Soybean Oil, Paraffinic Process Oil, Hydrous Magnesium Silicate, Linseed Oil)

Product Info: http://www.dap.com/retail/retail_detail.cfm?catid=5&subcatid=12&prodhdrid=75

Tech Info: http://www.dap.com/techbulletins/00010407.pdf

MSDS: http://www.dap.com/msds/10407.pdf

DAP INC.
2400 BOSTON STREET
BALTIMORE, MD 21224
888-DAP-TIPS (1-888-327-8477)

[sswiat]

I did attend a window workshop at the Traditional Building Show. One of the names of a glazing putty brought up by the lecturer was Perma-glaze. He did not have the company specifics available at the show but I will follow up with him on it. Apparently, it is oil based and paintable in 48 hours.

I tried finding it on the internet but all that comes up with Perma-Glaze is the franchise for resurfacing porcelain.

Anyway, in my search, I found www.putty.com (I think this is a clue of what they make). It is the Atlas Putty Company in Illinois. They only service distributors and their website does not provide who the distributors are. I will call them this week to learn more.

The have a "Wonder Putty" which they claim can be painted within 48 to 96 hours.

Once I get some more information, I will be glad to further it on .

[johnleeke]

Steve:

I think that was Duffy Hoffman giving the window workshop. I just talked with him on the phone and he offers "Perma Glaze" for $15/qt. He is buying the product from the manufacturer in 5-gal. cans and repackaging it. Duffy is a savey business man and was somewhat reluctant to name the manufacturer. That's alright, we can feel good about paying Duffy for his time and effort. We have to help "our own" by giving them business. You can get some good technical advice from Duffy when you place your order, so the relatively high price for the putty is well worth it. Duffy's contact info:

Hoffman Painting and Decorating
5290 Stump Road
Pipersville, Pa 18947
215-766-3544

I ordered 3 quarts from Duffy and will share them out to the participants at the window workshop next week, as part of out Putty Field Testing Project.

[johnleeke]

We have found that Perma-Glaze is now available directly from the manufacturer:


Perma Glaze 1230 Type W
Brian Damschroder
Technical Service Manager
Schnee-Morehead, Inc.
1-800-878-7876
Brian Damschroder <techmgr@schneemorehead.com>
1-800-TRUSTSM 1-800-878-7876 SCHNEE-MOREHEADÆ, INC. 111 N. Nursery Road Irving, TX 75060 972-438-9111 Fax: 972-554-3939 www.trustsm.com
The minimum size 5 gallon container is available for about $165 plus about $80 for shipping--it weighs 95 pounds. Do not ask for smaller containers, they are not available.
2-day skin-over to be ready for painting
Service life performance found to be good by small-shop sash makers, used by at least one large millworks supplier in New England in whose sash it is found to hold up well.

You can see Perma-Glaze compared with other compounds at:

http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131&highlight=putty

[jade]

I'm now down to the last gallon of my first 5 gallon bucket of Perma-Glaze. I puchased mine from Midwest Sealants in Ohio. Contact Keith at 614-847-4075. Their price is $89 plus $50ish for shipping the 88 pound container.

Pros:
--Handles and tools well
--Skins over and is ready for paint in 48 hours if the conditions are right

Cons:
--That bucket is TOUGH to stir. I used a huge drill press with a mixing paddle typically used for mixing drywall compound. Almost snapped my wrists!

--PG cannot be retooled easily even after just 24 hours--get it right the first time! No going back to try and sharpen the corners....

--Even after letting the sashes sit for 5 to 10 days in a shop with fans and a dehumidifier, the putty wrinkled after priming ( A sash maker who uses the product says he has the same problem.) The wrinkling goes away somewhat once the primer dries

--Since Schnee-Morehead purchased the product about 6 years ago from the original manufacturer, noone really knows the product well enough to answer all my questions/concerns. Brian is honest and forthcoming in his limited knowledge of the product.

--Even after mixing, the last gallon at the bottom of the container is rather dried out. Keith at Midwest tells me that some customers are discouraged by that and are no longer using the product.

Until someone finds or creates a better product, PG is my putty of choice even with all the cons....

...Jade