Historic HomeWorks Forum

cabinfeverarts · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 114

I was removing a porch window today to refinish and discovered rotten wood. Since I had viewed this video (http://historichomeworks.com/hhw/library/OHJEpoxy2004/OHJEpoxy2004.htm) this morning, I figured I could handle it and am going to try to do my first epoxy repair. I would love some guidance and have included some pictures.

How do I know if I have removed enough rotten wood?

There is at least 1/4" gap at the bottom of the window and vertical piece of wood. What should I do about this? Should I fill it in with epoxy? Is it suppose to be that way? Is this why water got in and rotted the wood. There was caulk filling the gap on the outside, but that may have been done relatively recently.

Thanks for the guidance. I will be updating and showing pictures!

cabinfeverarts · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 114

The all but the first picture in the prior post were before I took the window apart and discovered the rotten wood. At that time, I thought the only concern was the gap and so took those pictures.

johnleeke · Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:32 am Post subject:

It's pretty clear the sill has dropped, probably due to decay in the sill-jamb joint.

The decay is caused by moisture buildup in the wood. As you do this work try to determine the source of the water and if the source is still active. Is the wood obviously wet now? Water might be coming from the outdoors (rain, missing or clogged gutters, etc., and failing paint on the sill and sash), or indoors (condensation, moisture migrating up from a wet cellar, or right trough a masonry wall). Then eliminate or control the source of the water.

It looks like you have some extensive decay, so removal of all the decayed wood and replacing with wood-epoxy repairs or new wood may be a good approach. Simply start scraping, carving or cutting away the soft brown rotting wood. As you get into wood that is less decayed it will be harder, and lighter colored.

Does the decay go into the sill too? If so, begin caving it out.

You may have to remove the interior casing boards to get at the decay. Do this carefully so they are not damage and can go right back up. Let us know if you need help on methods to do this.

If the window frame jambs seem like they are getting loose stabilize their position by screwing on two or three 1"x2" wood strips on to the inside edges of the jambs, going from one jamb, horizontal over to the other jamb.

To learn the parts of the window as we talk about this, you can download the sample pages of the Save America's Windows book:

http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/reports/reports.htm#Windows

cabinfeverarts · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 114

My first question is: Since the porch dropped 1/4", should I then just fill in the 1/4" with epoxy or another piece of wood?

By the way, I'm pretty sure the pictured white stuff would be the culprit for my rotten wood. I'm sure it covered the windows for many years. Then with the 1/4" gap and failing caulk, it would seep in.

By the way, I included the second picture so you can see why I was so mad at the village last year about not taking the snow away. My little path ended up going 15 feet out past the curb! And that dirty stuff--I shoveled the night before, no snow during the night, so it must be the grater dumping it on my path. ERGH!!!!

cabinfeverarts · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 114

I read the Epoxy Report (thanks John) and applied some Abatron Liquid Wood today. Now that I'm not afraid of rot, I'm finding dark spots all over and digging them out. Now I just hope I don't get carried away and start stuff that I'm not able to finish before winter. Tomorrow I plan on attempting the WoodEpox.

cabinfeverarts · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 114

A fun little historic story:

I've been asked why I don't just take this rotten wood out and replace with some 2x4s. Well, until an hour ago, I've been pondering this somewhat myself. Especially, after this project keeps getting more and more complicated. But...I just discovered a historic family signature. The 100 year old house has always been in my family and today I found the signature of one of my great uncles. He was one of 13 siblings who grew up in the house probably around 1900 and sadly ended up dying too young (early 20s).

cabinfeverarts · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 114

I got the first jamb secured. Here are pictures. The second jamb is in the works.

johnleeke · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:41 pm Post subject:

Okey, dokey, looking good on the wood-epoxy repairs!

jade · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 786 Location: Hawley MA

wow, you certainly are a quick study!

were you amazed how how easily the woodepox sands out once it's set up?
i've had issues with the liquidwood remaining tacky for well over 24 hours...it was suggested that i allow the mixture a 10-15 minute induction time...in other words, stir the 2 parts well and let sit.....that seemed to help...i now use a couple of 75 watt bulbs (the old kind) in an aluminum dome type shop light to heat the epoxied area...sets up in about a half hour...

good work!
...jade

rncx · Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 660 Location: Little Rock, AR

cabinfeverarts · Joined: 05 Aug 2008 Posts: 114

I'm now getting nearer to installing the second window. Because the sill dropped, the frame is now 1/4 - 1/2" longer than the window itself. What should I do? Should I use backer rod and caulk? Should I stick a piece of wood in the space? I can slide my fingers under the entire window when it's in the frame. (Granted I am female and so have smaller hands.) Then the question becomes, should this extra space be at the bottom or at the top? Maybe I could split the 1/2" so that 1/4" is at the top and 1/4" at the bottom? The top is more protected by the overhang of the roof so maybe putting the space at the top would keep moisture problems minimal.

Help please....

rncx · Joined: 21 Jun 2008 Posts: 660 Location: Little Rock, AR

i would add to the top of the frame. if you replace the top parting bead with a taller one, and add a board in the channel to make the top sash top-out at a lower point, that would permanently solve the problem with little or no visual impact.

Randall · Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Colorado

John,
have you ever used Advance Restoration Repair epoxy? I started to use this product several years ago over abatron products. I have found abatron to be grainy. I had to apply more coats to smooth the final finish.
Yours
Randall

johnleeke · Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject:

Yes, I use them both, and about five others.

If the cured paste filler requires shaping by sanding or sharp-edged tools I'll often use Abatron rather than Advanced Repair Technology (ART), because the cured Abatron is much more like wood in density and 'cell-structure' than ART which is more dense and difficult to cut.

If mixing has to be done with difficult and unstable access, like on a ladder or bosen's chair, I'll use ART rather than Abatron, because their 'caulking gun' and mixing spout has everything in one convenient unit.

Each of the several epoxies has certain characteristics that will give some advantage or disadvantage over another, so I select which one to use specifically for each repair. Learn more in the Wood-Epoxy Repair report:

http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/reports/reports.htm#Wood-Epoxy%20Repairs

Randall · Joined: 06 Aug 2009 Posts: 28 Location: Colorado

When I have to stain I usually glue-in a dutch-man wood patch. I agree the texture of abatron is more wood like. If I stain I can carve, wood is me first choice. If I am painting I use ART, also easy to carve. I will rethink abatron
Thanks
Randall