Unusual meeting rail joint
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Historic HomeWorks Forum Forum Index -> Windows & Doors  
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
oculus



Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Unusual meeting rail joint Reply with quote

I have recently run across this unusual (for Oregon) joint when I was working on my latest project. You can take a look at the Ft. Dalles structure at my blog site: www.oculuswindow.blogspot.com
Over the summer I saw the same joint when I was working on some sash in Iowa and thought that I wouldn't see it again. Thinking that it was a regional construction style. I was very surprised when I found it again just 80 miles from my shop.
Both buildings were built in the 1850's, both sash are thin, 1 1/8" in thickness and both are located in utility areas.
Has anyone else seen this treatment? Is it more common then I think?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Amy



halfdove_nish_10.JPG
 Description:
This is the sash in Iowa
 Filesize:  408.82 KB
 Viewed:  253 Time(s)

halfdove_nish_10.JPG



halfdove_ftdalles_10.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  442.65 KB
 Viewed:  253 Time(s)

halfdove_ftdalles_10.JPG



_________________
A. McAuley
Traditional Sash Joiner

oculuswindow@blogspot.com

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"-T.Edison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnleeke
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2962
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an open dovetail joint, often used on the meeting rail joints, common in New England, and I saw it when I've been doing training in Florida, Nebraska and South Dakota.

How do they do the meeting rail joints in Oregon? Mortise & tenon with the lugs sticking out past the meeting rail?

Nice work on cleaning off the paint, what method are you using?

_________________
John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
oculus



Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"How do they do the meeting rail joints in Oregon? Mortise & tenon with the lugs sticking out?"

If the sash has lugs (curvy ear, lamb's tongue, horns) and a beveled meeting rail then I commonly see a "bridle" mortise and tenon.
If the sash has no lugs and a plain meeting rail then I see most often a through mortise and tenon joint and often the meeting rail is falling down from neglect.
Are the sash that you see it on from various parts of the house? Is it consistently used throughout the structure?
At the Fort it is only used in the kitchen.

_________________
A. McAuley
Traditional Sash Joiner

oculuswindow@blogspot.com

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"-T.Edison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnleeke
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2962
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually figure all the windows that are the same were put in the building at the same time.

If the kitchen windows are different than all the rest, that may suggest they were put in at a different time, or from a different source.

Kitchen windows got used a lot more than we think in the old days, so maybe the originals got worn out and they are replacements. I've seen a lot of early replacement windows in kitchens, milk rooms, workshops, etc.

_________________
John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
oculus



Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A different source/craftsman is what I am thinking in the case of the Fort. So many emigrants came through this area on the Oregon Trail and the Fort is the location where they had to choose whether to go on the Overland Trail or buy passage on a float boat to go down the Columbia. I am sure that some of them were out of money and needed to raise funds to get them the rest of the way to the Willamette Valley. It would have been easy for a passing craftsman to offer his services during the construction of the Fort.

Might make a good research paper.

_________________
A. McAuley
Traditional Sash Joiner

oculuswindow@blogspot.com

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"-T.Edison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen that joint up here in Ontario quite a few times now. So far all in pre~1880 windows.
_________________
Drew Skuce
PSC Heritage Restoration
5-48 Woodslee Ave. Paris, Ont. Canada
www.ParadigmShiftCustoms.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i believe in the sash shop using vintage steam driven equipment that was on the woodwright a couple of years ago, they had a tenoner that produced dovetailed corner joints as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnleeke
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2962
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the discussion that has a link to Roy's sashmaking video:
http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1041

and in this discussion, Alden Withham, owner of the sashmaking shop in the video, leaves us a message:
http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=616

_________________
John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
oculus



Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting machinery.
It is fascinating to see how all those belts work together to get something done. I will be making two pairs of these sash by hand. It was very informative to see how the machines do the work. Thanks for the links.

Out here in Oregon we have Monitor Millwork that uses only belt driven machinery. OSHA came down pretty hard when he had employees so he does all the work by himself now.

Also, as follow-up to your early question John about how I removed the paint from that edge- on that sash there was no paint to remove. The Ft. Dalles sash were not painted on the edge. The brightness of the wood is from the removal of dust and grime with a little sandpaper so I could determine the species of wood.
The photo above it that shows paint is the sash from Iowa. And I found it painted and left it so.

_________________
A. McAuley
Traditional Sash Joiner

oculuswindow@blogspot.com

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"-T.Edison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Historic HomeWorks Forum Forum Index -> Windows & Doors  
Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum