Weatherstripping.
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like there's not a bunch of interest in advanced window restoration techniques. Understandable, its a whole new way to look at restoration. Of course its not affordable-----yet!

Steve S
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2944
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>John, so you do do some restores to total window out of the wall? What is your experience as to the degree of difficulty in actually getting the whole frame out? How do you do it?<<The>>What are your perameters for making the decision to pull the whole unit versus just the sashes?<<

It's on a case-by-case basis. On some projects, like for a museum house, there is plenty of money and we are doing historical investigations, so we get a lot of important historical information by opening up the wall. Other times it is a practical decision, the studs in the wall next to the window are rotten so the window frame comes out for that structural repair and then goes back in.

>>Also, when making a duplicate whole window what is your planned tolerance for the width of the channels to the thickness of the sashes?<<

Channels 1/16"(full) wider than the thickness of the sash. Of course the width of the lower sash track is adjustable by the interior stop.

>>And how are you'll addressing these tolerances when restoring?<<Everything>>I think these tolerances and how they are addressed properly should be included in the standards, or do you think differently?<<

This level of detail is probably best set in each shop as a shop standard.

The Architectural Woodwork Institute has formal quality standards that cover window fabrication. (Steve Swiat loaned me a copy.) Most of these are results oriented, such as "no more than 3" of .05" gap in sash joints in one sash. Also there are different levels of quality that allow more or less gaps, etc. How that result is arrived at is up to the shop that makes it.

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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John, your always willing to help. Its appreciated.

I remember a long time ago I bought an almost complete set of small old books that went through the different steps to building a house. I need to go look for those because I can almost visualize one of the books being about windows. I've got to remember where I stored those. Geesh, it must have been 30 years ago. I just remember, just as I began writing this response. ha

Steve S
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Audels Carpenter and Builders guides. Mine were reprinted 1949.

It took me quite a while to find them. One of the books shows the scarf joint right way and wrong way, to make. Cool, I did it the right way.

No specs for tolerances when building a doubl hung so I'm still searching for those.
John says 1/16" in the channels from the thickness of the sash. I don't doubt this but would think we can skinny this up some.

Also I think 1/16" tollerance from width of jamb face to jamb face of other side to actual width of sash, is probably not enough. Thats just not much room width wise for expansion and contraction and movement of house in settling. I would think 1/8" on each side would be better. But this is just my opinion. I'll keep looking.

We're going to begin taking measures prior to removing sashes, so we can track to fix the really loose ones.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Audels Carpenter and Builders guides. Mine were reprinted 1949.


Both my dad and I grew up with the 1924 edition of Audels, here's the story:
http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/frontporch/front.htm#Hammer

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
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Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just tons and tons of info in these little books!!
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robselina



Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for what I think is a rather elementary question but I have yet to see it answered: Should spring bronze seals be installed for the length of the track in the frame (from top of the frame to bottom of the frame) or only where the sash is placed when locked/sealed (ie upper half of the outer track and lower half of the inner track)?

Having read through this thread and a few others I've decided that sealing the vertical tracks the sashes ride in makes good sense on my house. I'll leave the top rail of the upper sash, the bottom rail of the lower sash and meeting rails alone. However, having never seen these bronze seals installed I'm at a bit of a loss as to what is conventional practice.

Thanks,

Rob
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi rob...
i recently visited this website...there's a picture of a window where the top sash is moved down so you can see the spring bronze application...here they have applied the bronze so that it is hidden when the sash are in a closed position... http://www.restorationwindows.com/home.html

it's an aesthetics choice...you can run the bronze the full length or stop it at each sash...continuous run eliminates any possibility of snagging...

a couple of suppliers......make sure you request nails!

www.kilianhardware.com
www.accurateweatherstrip.com

good luck!
...jade
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When installing bronze or brass weatherstripping with the little nails what tools and techniques do you use to keep from buckling or denting the weatherstripping?
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Mike-in-Maine



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Fort Kent, ME

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive got an Audels Carpentry book. Its either from the 20's or 40's... that book is a treasure-trove!
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robselina



Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jade wrote:
hi rob...
i recently visited this website...there's a picture of a window where the top sash is moved down so you can see the spring bronze application...here they have applied the bronze so that it is hidden when the sash are in a closed position... http://www.restorationwindows.com/home.html

it's an aesthetics choice...you can run the bronze the full length or stop it at each sash...continuous run eliminates any possibility of snagging...

a couple of suppliers......make sure you request nails!

www.kilianhardware.com
www.accurateweatherstrip.com

good luck!
...jade


Thanks Jade.

Kilian is where I've bought mine from. It should be here early next week. I did remember the nails ;)

If I were to go flush with the bottom of the top sash and visa versa for the lower sash, how much of a risk is snagging? I realize one rail of the sash is always in contact with the seal when in the open position, but I wondered if that would be a problem....

Do the seals seem to improve operation much if they are run full length?

Sorry for all the questions!
Rob
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob:

Quote:
If I were to go flush with the bottom of the top sash and visa versa for the lower sash, how much of a risk is snagging? I realize one rail of the sash is always in contact with the seal when in the open position, but I wondered if that would be a problem....


When installing it in half the sash track, usually the bottom edge of the lower sash does not go above the top end of the weatherstripping, because of the height of the meeting rails and especially if there will be a roller shade mounted the sash space above. Measure it out on your windows and you'll see what I mean. If you're still not sure, cut a strip of cardboard, pretend it is the weatherstripping and tack it into the sash track and run the sash up and down to test it out.

To limit snagging crimp the end of the strip as shown in this replay of a video conference training session:


(click on the orange dot in the lower right, scroll down and click on #16, wait for it to play throug the black segment at the beginning.)

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John

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by pen and thought best words are wrought
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robselina



Joined: 14 Jan 2010
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John - I couldn't seem to get the audio to work on the video, but I do follow the thought about crimping the end of the strip.
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Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really a neat idea putting the V-bronze on the sash instead of on the jamb.

More tools in the tool belt of ideas.

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Drew Skuce
PSC Heritage Restoration
5-48 Woodslee Ave. Paris, Ont. Canada
www.ParadigmShiftCustoms.com
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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looking at some of the ideas for weather-stripping. I am not a fan of fin and pile as it is only one "oops" paint brush swipe from being rendered totally useless.
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