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waterford-ed



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject: New glazing Reply with quote

I heard about a new glazing compound called Glaze-Ease, http://www.advancedrepair.com/glazing/glazing.htm. Has anyone tried this?

Thanks
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only good thing i have heard about glaze-ease is that it dries quickly for priming.....

it is expensive
it is messy
it doesn't tool well
when dried, it leaves a concave effect rather than a flat surface

anyone else?
....jade
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2805
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glaze-Ease 601 is a high-performance acrylic elastomeric type glazing sealant developed as a glazing compound by window specialist John Stahl. It is not a"knife grade" glazing compound and its application and performance characteristics are so different from traditional linseed oil types and modified oil type glazing compounds that they are barely comparable.

You apply it in place with a caulking gun, and tool it once with a special hard rubber tool, and then leave it alone to cure. It becomes messy and difficult to work with if you try to tool with a putty knife in the traditional way, and if you try to go back and rework the line of glazing. It is possible to learn the special method and technique of handling this material. It is paintable a few hours after application. It is highly adhesive on clean glass and primed wood and remains highly flexible throughout its service life. I have not yet determined its mode of failure or maintainability.

You can get my take on this stuff at a recent live video conference:

http://flash.kmi.open.ac.uk:8080/fm/memo.php?pwd=f26428-5122&jt=01:02:57

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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Jhstahl



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Glaze-Ease 601 Reply with quote

I'm sorry Jade has had such a bad experience with Glaze-Ease 601 !

My name in John Stahl, developer of Glaze-Ease 601. John Leeke invited me to comment on the Glaze-Ease.
As a former window restoration contractor, I was very dissatisfied with the linseed oil putties available on the market. Linseed oil putty as most of you know is basically linseed oil and chalk. It ages to rock hard, inflexible mass. It takes a fair amount of skill and "bench time" to get good at it. And , in my opinion, took far too much time to kneed, thumb, and tool. Because Linseed oil is a long-chain solvent, it takes weeks (sometimes months) to "off-gas" to the point where it can be painted without orange peeling. Linseed oil is a great food for mildew. I have a whole crop of mildew growing on some old putty on my 1800's windows.

At the same time we tried all the new acrylic putties ( generally water clean-up and found in a caulk tube ) the biggest problem with these materials are: excessive shrinking, age hardening, and poor toolability.

The benefits of high-solid acrylics are quick cure times, mold resistant, UV light resistant, highly flexible, long life. Acrylics are also fantastic adhesives.

We went back to the drawing board with the same chemist that developed our Epoxy wood repair system. Our goal was a high-quality, durable, easy to apply, easy to tool, paintable within 2 hours, minimal shrinkage.

Here's the bad news. Remember all the time spent learning how to use the linseed oil putty? Your linseed oil putty skills will not work with our product. Glaze-Ease 601 has a whipped cream consistancy and is best tooled with a special applicator knife we have also developed.

Here's the good news: Our customers have found once the learning curve is completed ( about 4 to 6 hours bench time ) They can work cleaner, and faster than with traditional linseed putties. Provides good adhesion to glass, bare wood, bare metal, primed and painted surfaces. Also adheres well to plexiglass and great for low-e coatings and I.G. units.

Another benefit: No need to paint linseed oil in the rabbet. Another time savings.

Glaze-Ease 601 has been available since 2001. Our biggest application so far has been the greenhouses at Hearst Castle State Park in San Simion, California. The Baltimore Basilica ( Thomas Jefferson ) is just being completed using Glaze-Ease 601.
The Old Iowa State Capitol building is another, completed last year.

So I encourge you to give it try.

More information is available at: http://www.advancedrepair.com/glazing/glazing.htm

You can call me or email any questions you might have.

Cheers,

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John H. Stahl
The Growth Coach
888-625-9838
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2805
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jade mentions:
Quote:
a concave effect rather than a flat surface


I can imagine that a concave effect could be due to shrinkage due to evaporation of water during cure.

John Stahl mentions:
Quote:
high-solid acrylics


Does "high solids" mean there is less water, and so less shrinkage?

Does Glaze-Ease shrink any during the cure? If so, what is the shrinkage rate? Is there any shrinkage during the service life?

Is there anything other than shrinkage during cure or service life that could cause a concave effect?

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uh oh....am i in big trouble? if so, i am soooo used to it!

i don't like any of the material that comes in a caulking tube. any opinion i offer here is from my experience, which is rather substantial, but others may have a different experience. i am a purest in many respects. i like rolling the putty in my hands and applying it with a knife. i prefer using an oil based putty product and i don't find it difficult or unduly messy, all things being relative.

the glazing product i currently use, sarco type m, is about 70% soy oil (not the kind you use in your kitchen) and 30% linseed oil. prior to applying the putty, i apply a mixture of penetrol/spirits to both the interior and exterior of the sash. i use it as a conditioner for the wood and as an assurance that the wood (once oiled) will not wick oil from the putty or the primer. i then apply one coat of primer and two coats of acrylic latex paint. i think that is sufficient for uv protection and in resisting mold. if the putty is properly sealed then a problem with mold is a moot point. i advise my customers to put in place a maintenance program to assure that the windows are inspected and painted when necessary.

i would take the john's (haha--no slight meant here) advice and try ALL products to find the one that best fits your individual needs. besides, i remember john stahl before he had gray hair, so he's been at it a while!!

.....jade
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Jhstahl



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Upstate New York

PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject: Gray hair Reply with quote

Thanks for remembering the hair Jade. I still have most of it, even though it's gray!

In answer to John Leeke's questions about shrinkage. Because our materials are water-borne, there is shrinkage. Somewhere between 2% and 3 %

In most cases this is an acceptable amount with little visual impact.

Shrinkage can be minimized further by applying an intial bead of material
"inside" the triangle. Allow this to cure fully, then reapply and tool to shape.

Cheers,

_________________
John H. Stahl
The Growth Coach
888-625-9838
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Ed Snope



Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Northern Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Allback linseed putty Reply with quote

After purchasing apparently the last quart of Old Time putty available, which had become fairly hard, I discoverd the Allback putty and linseed products. I've been using them since this spring, and am very pleased with the results. The putty is quite easy to use and does not need any drying time before applying the linseed paint. The downside is a bit of pulling on the surface which makes it difficult to achieve a super flat surface. The paint requires a stiff brush to be able to spread it thin enough, so it's easy to disfigure the putty. However, it can be reshaped to some degree after the paint hardens (it does not dry- I believe the correct term is polymerization?). I can't imagine mixing a large container of putty- it would not fit in the microwave! Mixing and using warm putty is much easier. The paint must be spread extremely thin, or else the surface will remain wet longer than 24 hours, the surface will remain tacky for days or weeks, and wrinkles will develop with wet paint underneath. The putty may be expensive, but the paint is very inexpensive, considering the incredible spreading ability! A quart covered one coat on the entire foundation- 1/3 of a quart completed a second coat. Keep soil away from tacky paint; you will not be able to wash it off. No more petro-paints for me!
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historypaul



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 8
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Glazing Putties Reply with quote

I've just voraciously read this whole string on glazing putties, and feel like I've been watching a soap opera or reading a Danielle Steele novel. What happened to the guy who got shot down by the Chicago glazing putty supplier? Is Hans OK after eating all that putty at the show? Will Jade eventually chop her fingers off in those timed fans? Tune in next week.

Seriously though, I truly am excited to see what everybody thinks of all of these putties, and can't wait to see the results of your next test, John. Here in the Midwest we feel like the "red-headed stepchildren" of the restoration industry. You'll notice all the posts seem to be in the much more history-steeped east coast area.

We've been doing window restoration for just over a couple of years now, and it's amazing how much there still is to learn. I can't wait to try the Chicago base putty supplier, and I'll post on my experiences with them.

I also was fortunate enough to see Hans at the trade show here on Navy Pier in Chicago, and was very impressed with his products. My business partners and I are looking forward to testing them in our new shop.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to discuss these issues. What we all do is even more rare here in the midwest than it is on the east coast that your open minded debate and serious consideration of these products is a joy.

And sorry... I'm longwinded and type really fast.

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"A morsel of genuine history is a thing so rare as to be always valuable" Thomas Jefferson
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am not a step child, but i do have reddish (auburn) hair....the blades on the fan are plastic and my hands are rather sturdy after all these years of tedious window work....at last count, all digits are accounted for....

glad you enjoyed the putty discussion and look forward to your feedback concerning allback putty.....

thanks!
...jade
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S.Eriksson



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Victor, New York

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
I will shed some light on this whole issue of window glazing for you. Not too many homeowners or contractors have the time to wait for the glazing to skin over for weeks before they can paint. This is all solved by using the Allback linseed oil window glazing. If you use the linseed oil paint, you can paint right away without having to wait. This is an amazing time saver. The Allback linseed oil glazing is made from cleaned raw linseed oil. Raw linseed oil will take a very long time to dry and this is one of the reasons if will last 40 years on a window. You maintain it by applying the slightly heated up cleaned boiled linseed oil every 5-10 years. It is quite soft and can be easily applied. A soft glazing adheres very well to wood and glass. Most glazing products you can purchase today will dry out very quickly and crack. I belive a restored window should last more than 5-10 years. The Allback products from Sweden is amazing.
Once the oil is completely mixed into the glazing, you can store unused glazing in your freezer for unlimited time. You can thaw and freeze it unlimited amount of times too. More information: www.solventfreepaint.com
Thank you

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www.paintbrushesandrollers.com
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S.Eriksson



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Victor, New York

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are several questions about the consistency of the Allback linseed oil glazing. It is softer than any other glazing on the market, that is for sure. It must be soft to adhere to wood or glass otherwise it will crack open quickly. When you are receiving a container of the Allback glazing, you should heat it up in the microwave oven or in a regular oven. Micro 3 x 5 seconds and maybe 45 minutes in low heat in a regular oven. You can also use a double boiler. Mixing can be done in a regular Cuisine Art dough mixer too. We tested in a regular in home Cuisine Art mixer and it did not take more than 5 minutes to mix the oil into the compound. If you are mixing by hand, just kneep mixing until all oil is absorbed into the compound. Always mix the entire content of the container. Keep any unused glazing frozen. Using some whiting ( chalk ) in you hand can be usefull but you do not need to add any whiting into the glazing.
Learn more in the Allback Video at: www.solventfreepaint.com
Thanks

_________________
Our mission is to bring Organic restoration products to the American market.
www.solventfreepaint.com www.silentpaintremover.com
www.paintbrushesandrollers.com
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2805
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1/20/07

Sarco Type M Putty prices up from $11.05 to $12.20 per gallon, on 5 gals.

(I don't begrudge any price increases from the Sarsfields, since their putty is worth far more than they charge for it.)

Shipping costs down, I paid $52 on the 80lb. 5gal. to Portland, ME, but Ed advises me new shipping rates are now lower, at $41.

Net: cost of Sarco Putty drops about 5%.

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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Allison



Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Denver, CO

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:25 pm    Post subject: Giving that Sarco Multi-Glaze M a shot! Reply with quote

Based on Jade's positive experience with the Sarco putty, I thought I might give it a whirl.

Our little window restoration company is gearing up for a large job--400 sash in 2 months, yikes! We typically use Dap 33 and love the final product but our patience with dry time has run pretty thin. We did have pretty good luck with the Perma-Glaze product and thought our dry time frustrations were a thing of the past...we were pretty bummed to discover Perma-Glaze was no more. We've also tried the Glaze-ease product and between the shrinkage and the difficulty in tooling a decent-looking glaze line...let's just say our glaziers shudder at the very word.

So I've been handed the daunting task of researching glazing alternatives. I'm excited about the Sarco product and wonder if anyone has anything to add about it before we actually get our hands dirty?

Also on my list of putties to research are "Henderson" and "Weymouth". Anyone ever heard of these?

I'll report back how the Multi-Glaze M goes for us.
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi allison......
welcome to the site.....looks like perhaps you have been reading and now it's time to contribute as well.....

there really is no learning curve for using sarco type m putty if you have used dap, permaglaze or other similar products...the putty tends to build up on the hands so i always have a jar of turpentine and papertowel to clean hands and tools...one of the tricks i have employed is to do a rough application of the putty on the sash, put the sash off to side while working on another sash, then go back and finish tooling the first one...i find that an hour or more (even overnight if you put two sash exteriors face to face and limit air flow) of sitting renders the putty less sticky.....

as you may have read in my prior posts, i have a fan set up to blow on the puttied sash which gently aids in drying time....48-72 hours is all the time you will need to have the putty skin over sufficiently for priming.

i am not familiar with henderson or weymouth....any contact information?

bob yapp suggests that ugl glazol can be primed in 24 hours....i have used glazol and really like its tool consistency but others who use it say to wait at least a week prior to priming...anyone have anything to offer on that topic?

allison, others in our northeast window restoration alliance are using sarco and quite like it.....i look forward to hearing your updates....400 sash in 2 months???? how many employees do you have?

.......jade
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