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waxahatchie



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 99
Location: the other portland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: scaring off contractors Reply with quote

i know a number of you here are contractors or business folk, and i had some questions for you about dealing with homeowners.

to wit: i am having a parade of tradespeople through the house (it needs almost everything), and am finding that they consider me insane. a few never called back to even overbid the job and thus get rid of me. i think i made one cry.

my problem is that i grill them intensely about what it is they propose they do, sometimes down to small details like hinge screws - and if i don't like the answer i ask them why they don't do it another way, or why they choose that product. i have been known to disparage the quality of well-known brand names, both national and local. i look up company web pages, and point out anything that gives me pause and try to find out if the contractor has used the item for any length of time, and how they stood up. i insist on procedures and materials that have a life of more than 3 years. i want things that lead to maintainability or ease of repair... i read the national park service bulletins, and try to follow their recommendations on the work in question. and of course i read sources like this forum, old audel's-type manuals and books by people like george nash.


i understand how most business models work, and i understand that most contractors have a formula for how much they can charge per job based on time, materials and the competition. part of my schtick is to weed out the get-in/get-out crowd. but i try and let the person know that i am willing to pay more for a better quality job than the average homeowner (our budget permitting, of course). i'd rather spend $$$$ once than $$ a number of times!

i have argued with chimney contractors who want to use coatings on our stone even though the MANUFACTURER advises against their use in our case. they also refused to replace my throat damper, pushing a top-closer like the lymance instead. i understand it is a profit item for them, but i can't hire a company that keeps trying to spend my money unwisely. i also feel i can't fully trust a contractor who won't budge from their set mode of operation... like the glass man who spent some time telling me why he COULDN'T miter his trim corners tighter!

on the other hand, after hearing me jabbering away about my dislike of latex, a contractor explained to me why he switched from oil primer, and what results he had since then. another spent some time discussing various weatherstrip options, why he used what he did, and that while he COULD use interlocking bronze, i probably wouldn't like the cost quote for it, nor get much better results than his proposed method. a plasterer walked me through 3 options, explained the costs, and then stated his reasons why he didn't recommend the first (cheaper) two.

so i DO have some productive conversations, but i know the contractors still found them trying. so i ask you all:
what approaches have customers used with you along these lines that you found productive? what was unproductive? was there a job where you found
such a conversation with the customer enriched both the job and your skills? one that was the opposite? what about the bad experiences made them so? when you encounter a pain in the ass like me, what are your responses - do you decline the job then and there, never contact the person again, or just REALLY overcharge them? :)

my point is that with a few exceptions, i respect the people i have met, and their skills. but their skills may or may not translate to how i want things done. i might not be able to AFFORD things done the way i want, and i want a cogent explanation of that fact, and what my options are based on my expressed desire. i want the tradesperson to feel proud of their work and be paid appropriately; neither cutting corners nor eating losses. and i don't think i'm getting that across - at least, not in a way that doesn't scream 'problem client!'

because i don't think i am - our mason made a small mistake on a wall, and while i COULD have him tear it down and redone per our contract, it was cosmetic and not structural. i was disappointed, but not angered. we discussed how it happened, and how both he and i could avoid issues like that in the future, and what we could do to fix things that get off track. we then planned on several more jobs for him in the spring.

that's the sort of relationship i want with all our craftspeople. and i'd like to develop a better way of getting there, for the sake of both parties.


i do know i need to cut down the caffeine before they show up to bid a job.
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mario



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where to start....

I have been painting for over 20 years now, started my own business more recently (2003) and have seen my share of ugly customers. Some so rub me the wrong way or treat me (intentionally or not) like the hired help or an adversary that I will not even quote a price. I don't know what it is, but I have friends who I've helped out on jobs, and didn't like their client for some reason or another and they've been burned in the end somehow. (in the 4 or 5 instances this had occurred my friends had to go to court or threaten to do so to get paid) I don't know, ESP or something?

When I have bid jobs, I tell the customer how I will be doing my work, point out problems that will be addressed and how I will fix them. In a way, I tell them how the job should be done and done well. Most of the time, they will go with the cheapest bid or just not do the work. I have seen jobs that I've lost go peeling after a year or two. I was once called in to check out a gutter problem on a house where I bid for the children's room only to see that the winning bidder "fixed" the plaster with a bucket of joint compound.

In the cases where the customer chose someone else and had bad results, I never got the call back, as maybe it was losing face admitting their error, I don't know.

I've lost money on jobs, because maybe I'm too meticulous in my preparation and paint work, or I overlooked problems that the customer won't pay more for to fix correctly, and I can't leave it undone and have my job come out well.

I have had customers tell me how they would do something, sometimes insisting how it should be done, and I've said, "well, you sound very knowledgeable in this area, so why would you need to hire me?" One instance where a couple bought a condo and wanted to change the hideous disney painting in one room which covered everything and yet the woman insisted the covers for the baseboards could never be painted or stripped, but that something had to be done.

I went to school for 4 years, have done some work on a masters and now am studying architecture and the last thing I would need to hear is someone telling me that I don't know what I am doing or treating me like their child or husband or a servant.

Ask for a written proposal from your contractors when they come in for a bid. Point out what you need done and wait for the proposal. If the contractor explains completely what he will do and in a correct way, then you could go a bit deeper afterward to tell him the type of job you expect from him and that you're willing to pay for a good job and lasting work.

Don't waste any of your time telling a contractor how exactly to do something - he should already know and be able to show you that in a written proposal.

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Jeremy Ballard



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 127
Location: Providence, RI and Cape Cod, MA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. Well. I've been in business for 9 years now. 11 years as a preservation carpenter. I think that for a true tradesmen/woman you would be a good client. You would be to me. To have a client understand and know how something should be done and is open to procedural dialogue is a nice change of pace. It means that you will appreciate the effort that goes into the project. You will notice the little details and say thank you when everyone else won't.

The people who run shouldn't be there anyway. A good portion of the contracting world is a guy with a truck. They don't have a college education, they aren't interested in new ways of doing things and just want to make a buck. They may be good, but are they the right person for an old structure. That's the key.

Historic structures present unique challenges to the tradesmen. For instance, a simple request to replace 4 undersized posts on a porch winds up costing over $10,000. It's sounds simple enough but to get the permit I need an architect and engineer to spec out a code approved detail. I have enormous footings to dig once I get the old ones out and I'm dealing with existing framing conditions that don't sync well to the new code approved detail.

You may need to expand your search area until you find the right person.

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Heritage Restoration, Inc.
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig, you are definitely not insane. In fact, you have a clearer view of what is going on than they do, and than you even realize yourself. So, step back, take a deep breath, breath out. Relax.

You definitely are THE most frightening thing to many tradespeople and contractors: a knowledgeable consumer.

The entire American disposable products consumer economy is based on greed of the manufacturers at the top and consumers at the bottom who know only how to buy and nothing at all about what they are buying. In between the top and the bottom are these tradespeople and contractors who really work for the manufacturers and do not work for you, the homeowner. Most of them do not know this, they think and believe they are working for themselves, but the manufacturers and marketers do control them in various very effective ways. And without a doubt they definitely control most consumers. The consumer is supposed to simply roll over and accept whatever they are offered. When you know what you want it is so contrary to what they believe in that they ignore you, run the other way in fright, or simply break down and cry. It's truly sad that the industry puts them and you in this position. This definitely includes the building products industry. You just don't fit their business model, so you are faced with these difficulties.

It may seem like you have to 'row your boat up stream', but you do not. As in the limerick, 'row, row, row, your boat gently down the stream.' You CAN find the tradespeople and contractors you need. Jeremy and Mario, are the type you want. Together we'll help you figure out how find tradespeople and contractors in your area just like them.

Take a look at my Old-House Mechanic's Manifesto,

http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=858

and come back with a few questions.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:24 am; edited 2 times in total
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waxahatchie



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 99
Location: the other portland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the input - and john, i agree with your philosophies; a gentleman named john dicker wrote: "The ugly truth is that we've become a nation that values little above a bargain."

now, it is one thing to find someone who agrees with you - it is quite another when they can back up those opinions with DATA! which is why i love this site, and why i give the contractors such a hard time; the people here are seeing what works and what doesn't, both historically and currently. so when i insist a tradesperson explain to me why they think a method works better than what i see recommended here, i want a better reason than 'everyone does it that way.'

mario, i NEVER tell a contractor what to do, i ask why they do things the way they propose. and i have had 3 people give me a written proposal, and then refuse to answer my questions about it. it was clear to them that i was asking for more time and thought than they chose to invest in a customer, even if i paid for it. sad, since one of them was supposedly THE best chimney man in portland (so i still have a leaky, unusable fireplace). i'm glad i found that out before they started work!

but the main thrust of my question was about my approach; perhaps grilling a contractor makes them defensive or sets their esp off... i was hoping to fine-tune my methods. otherwise, i'll run out of contractors :P


oh, and john, i guess i should start signing my posts; i use my wife's email, but stephanie says her job is enjoying the work after it is finished!

craig
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Sean



Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 170
Location: Salem, MA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a knowledgeable customer is a very, very good thing. Don't be afraid to ask questions. It's your house, you can ask about all the details you like. Some contractors don't like it, some don't like being questioned, so don't like being told what to do. Nobody does. Probably has more to do with simple human nature than anything else. As far as delving into the details, knowing is key. I understand how traditional plaster walls work, how post and beam construction works and all that. I can't plaster a wall or build a house, though. I think one of the above posters is correct in searching for the right contractor for the right house. Getting someone who "gets it" will save you more hassle in the long run. It's basically a job interview, so don't be afraid to ask probing questions. I wish I had been more selective when I started restoring my house.

Sean
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and i want a cogent explanation of that fact, and what my options are based on my expressed desire. i want the tradesperson to feel proud of their work and be paid appropriately; neither cutting corners nor eating losses. and i don't think i'm getting that across -


Saying so, in just these words, should get it across. Then follow up with actions that demonstrate it. (see procedure below)

Quote:
but their skills may or may not translate to how i want things done... i might not be able to AFFORD things done the way i want,


Following is the procedure for working with tradespeople and contractors will help you get what you want and know what the costs will be. that I have used this procedure for decades as a homeowner, tradesperson, contractor and in managing projects for building owners as a consultant. I also pass this procedure along to anyone who pays me for referrals (the only way I give referrals).


Referrals from John Leeke, Preservation Consultant

Do not use these referrals without following the guidelines below. A listing of tradespeople or contractors here does not imply any endorsement or assurance of success.

Procedure for Getting the Best Work Possible

A. List on paper all the issues about the project that are important to you.

B. Identify enough prospective tradespeople, contractors or professionals for any particular piece of work or project to find three who are responsive enough to consider. You may have to call 25 or 35, to get 10 or 12 to visit your site, to get 2 or 3 who are responsive enough to give a written proposal, to find 1 or 2 who will actually do the work. Ask them for references to include a contact person, project descriptions and locations. For projects over $1,000. get at least three references. For projects over $20,000. get at least five references. For projects over $50,000 get ten references. Talk with at least three references from each.

C. Describe what you want to have done on one sheet of paper that you can hand to prospective tradespeople, contractors or professionals. When you don’t know what needs to be done get at least three prospects to the visit site and discuss the work with them. Your purpose is to learn about the work, what will be done, how it will be done, materials, etc.. Ask when you don’t know what a word means, or what they are talking about. Take your own notes, do not depend solely on their handouts. Often they will want to send you a proposal or contract with dollar figures. It is often easier to let them do this because it is what they are used to doing, but you’re real purpose is to learn about the work. Their proposals will be good study material. Don’t pay any attention to the dollars, just yet. (Thank each in writing for sending their proposal.)

Then study your notes and see what is common to all three. That will probably be the “common or minimum standard practice” for that trade or profession in your area. You will also know a little of the specialized “lingo” for that work. Go to the library and study the books. Then decide what you want to have done and write it up. Express it in your own words, use words and phrases from the handouts and proposals, but do not simply copy long sections verbatim. You probably will want something that goes beyond “minimum standard practice.” Include at least one important aspect of the work from each prospect.

D. Invite the three prospects back to the site individually, show them your write up, and discuss the difference between their proposal and your write up. Learn more. Revise your write up and send it to all three prospects. Ask each to give you a revised proposal. If some decline (some may not want to work with such a knowledgeable owner), then go through B and C above to develop more prospects. (Thank each in writing for sending their proposal.)

E. This gives you a fully developed choice. Use the following selection criteria to rate your prospects. (Give more weight to 1., less to 2., etc.)

1. Responsiveness to your needs
2. Ability to do the work
3. Ability to do business
4. Price
5. Your "gut" feeling

F. Now select the prospect that rates highest and check with third parties such as the building codes enforcement officers, local and state historic preservation officers and county court clerks, to determine their reputation.

G. Always have the selected prospect demonstrate his/her ability with a preliminary "Work Sample." This is a small piece of work to be done under separate contract, to demonstrate their ability to do business, ability to do the work to your satisfaction, and how well you "get along." The scope is limited (say, 1 window of 20 to be repaired, or a 10'-20' wide, foundation to eaves exterior section of a house to be painted, or one back slope of a roof). You will have to pay for the work sample, usually at a higher rate per unit than if the whole project is done at once.

Work Sampling can be expanded to Testing & Development. If you are asking them to do something they have never done before (but you both think they are capable) then the tradespeople can try out different methods to determine what works and what doesn't; and develop the materials and methods that will work. Of course, you pay for this testing and development, sometimes on an hourly basis with a top limit, etc. This also gives the tradespeople a chance to develop costing figures for the main work by keeping track of their time and materials. This is a great "trust builder" since you both learn together what is required and what the costs are.

When the work sample is complete, thank them for the work, pay them, wait at least a day, up to a week or more, and decide whether or not the work is acceptable.

H. Ask for a written contract for the main work when the sample work is acceptable and you decide to have this prospect do the rest of the project. Include in the written contract that the work is to be done exactly like the approved sample work, with the same methods, materials and results, and to be done by the same workers.

If the work of the sample is not acceptable, if they just can’t get it right, be sure to pay them and thank them. Then have one of the next-rated prospects do a work sample. Repeat G. and H. as needed.

Does this sound like a lot of work? Yes, it is a lot of work to get the right people on your project in the beginning. If you happen to get the wrong people on your project you will put in at least this much work recovering from the problems they leave behind, and probably a lot more.

Does this really work? Do you really have to follow every step? No, in some situations some steps may not be necessary, possible or appropriate. All I can say is that if this procedure is followed the likelihood of success increases dramatically. As the procedure is departed from the likelihood of success diminishes somewhat.

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Kate



Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 32
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You may have to call 25 or 35, to get 10 or 12 to visit your site, to get 2 or 3 who are responsive enough to give a written proposal, to find 1 or 2 who will actually do the work.


You're right about that, John, but you left out Step 1. First, quit your day job.

When I bought this big old house in the early 80's, it was almost impossible to find anyone to do even rudimentary work because I'd call someone recommended by a neighbor or the paint store and set up a time to meet the person, take time off work for that, and then 9 times out of 10 the person wouldn't show up. It got to the point that anyone that showed up and was willing to do the job, got the job. The concept of getting bids was utterly laughable.

Now here I am over 25 years later, and the same situation still prevails. I still hire the first person I call that's willing to do the job. And the concept of getting bids is still laughable. The only difference is that I now have a better handle on who to call first, and I've retired from my day job.

But I have the opposite problem than you described, waxahatchie. I'm not seen as a pest but rather a push-over. I keep running into situations where I hire a good person to do something and they leave in the middle of the project to take on some other work, knowing that they can come back to my project some time later with no repercussions. They see me as a friendly, slightly quirky lady whose checks don't bounce.

Last March I hired a contractor to oversee a kitchen overhaul. This contractor had done some major work for me in the past, and did it very well. He is also a well respected person in the community. The project was going great guns until he suddenly disappeared. I know some other opportunity must have came along and my project was put "on hold", and he knows I won't sue him or even get mad. And I know he'll eventually show up and get the job done and do it well (but in the mean time I'm living in a house with a gutted kitchen). That's the kind of thing I'm dealing with here.

Maybe central Vermont is in some other world, but it's not all that far from you are, John. I don't think your "Procedure for Getting the Best Work Possible" has anything to do with the realities that most people in northern New England are dealing with.

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Kate

~~ Vinyl is for records, not windows. ~~
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mario



Joined: 23 Oct 2009
Posts: 7
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig,

I just believe that going on an inspection and bid is like an interview, only for both people. I have to say that over 99% of my customers have been great, one customer even insisted on making lunch for me and my crew and left instructions to her husband to do the same while she was out on an errand.

What she was most happy with was that I showed up on time for the walk-through and promptly came up with a proposal. I had also, as a gift to the customer, made a floral frame for a mirror in the bathroom where I was working, and that room became her best room.

Then there are the jobs I didn't get. I had a customer who wanted the exterior of her house painted and called several contractors out of the book for bids. I walked around the house (in Feb.) showing spots that would need attention, what proper prep work would be, making note of a condition that needed attention unrelated to painting, and she was in awe that no one else took that time to point these things out.

The one thing that rubbed me wrong was when she seriously stated that because she was on a main road, people would see my sign and her job would be cheaper, right? I told her that I considered signs to be an eyesore and that regardless I would do the best job possible, be her house on the road or hidden in the woods.

She did call my references, but I didn't win the bid. A year later, I noticed the paint peeling in the spot I told her that needed attention.

Oh, well.

And I have been on the waiting end waiting for contractors. Less so now, as I have increased my pool of knowledge with friends and books (and this site!!) to do my own work.

I'm not going to be a fun customer 20 to 30 years from now, I'll tell you.

take care,

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rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's a mixed bag, from the other side of the fence.

most contractors, like waxahatchie mentioned, just argue with me that something "can't be done". which is BS, and at that point i'm pretty much never calling them again. i don't appreciate being lied to. and i know when i'm being lied to.

if a contractor doesn't want to do a job for any particular reason, i have no problem with them saying so. but someone who'll lie to me within 5 minutes of shaking my hand for the first time isn't really worth my time either.
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i offer work proposals to home owners, building managers, general contractors and architects...my approach is low key and personable...i am confident that my passion for preserving old windows is apparent but i also need to back up my claims with solid proven information...

i show up on time for an initial site visit with a 'sample packet' which includes samples of a few types of weather stripping, chain & rope, old glass, sash locks, adjuster beads and small storm windows--two wood and one aluminum...

i think it's important to put the homeowner/building manager at ease by being straightforward and honest...no overwhelming sales tactics here! i let them know that the work can take place in phases over years if they are on a budget and that they may even want to consider doing some of the work themselves with my guidance...the client can save money if they choose to remove/reinstall or paint the sash themselves...

i set expectations about my schedule/availability (i don't promise exterior painting in february!) and follow through with a bulleted proposal outlining the work and payment schedule within 5 days...i email and usps mail the proposal...

an educated client is one who will not be intimidated or suspicious of my intentions and will best appreciate the work once completed...

those contractors who have difficulty answering questions and outlining procedures and materials may have something to hide...

i make myself available by phone/email to those who do have day jobs (hi kate!) from 8am til 7pm 6 days a week...sunday meetings are not unusual...

...jade
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eastendws



Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with any customer's question regarding why we do what we do the way we do it. I can respond to any query about our process intelligently, and informatively. What I do find is that some customers have read something somewhere, or someone has told them something, and they have bits of half truths, or downright misconceptions about our type of work (stripping and refinishing woodwork).
So, sometimes this type of customer becomes a total PITA because they think they have the inside track; and it's hard - and sometimes not worth it- to change their perspective. It's easier to move on to greener pastures. My question is why are there always these "rules" that homeowners are to follow regarding selecting a contractor, but none point out the other side- dealing with potentially difficult clients- there are out there, to be sure.
Where are the 15-point guidelines contractors should follow in selecting a client? It should be a two-way street.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Where are the 15-point guidelines contractors should follow in selecting a client?


Many contractors and tradespeople do have a set procedure or guidelines they follow in selecting a customer. In fact, I first developed this procedure as I made the shift from a tradesman to a contractor back in the 1980s, and then refined it as I did project management for several of my customers during the late 80s and through the 90s. If you have a procedure or guidelines, feel free to share them here.

Quote:
It should be a two-way street.


Any business (and even personal) relationship is always best when it is a two way street. The procedure above does go both ways.

Work Sampling and Testing & Development is a chance for the tradesperson or contractor to demonstrate their abilities and determine what it will take to actually do the work. Essentially it is getting paid by the hour to figure out what works best, take into account unknown variables that are discovered during the work, and then develop an accurate proposal or contract for the rest of the work--all paid for by the customer. I'd say that has a lot going toward the contractor. It's especially useful when the customer is asking you to do something you have not done before. It is also a chance for the contractor to decide if he wants to work for that customer. Wouldn't you want to learn that a customer is a total PITA after a $2000 testing and development phase (when you can gracefully bow out), than partway through a $30,000 project with a contract that binds you to completion no matter what the customer is like?

It is the objective even-handed approach that makes this procedure work so well. I've developed and refined it as a tradesman, a contractor, a project manager, and a building owner. Many others in construction use very similar procedures, although it's usually bigger projects.

A contractor can use the exact same procedure.
The tradespeople and contractors who have worked with it like it.

As presented above the procedure is written for a homeowner (who asked the question here) If I get time, I'll rewrite it for the contractor, but it wouldn't be much different.

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eastendws



Joined: 02 Apr 2010
Posts: 6
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know most contractors who have been around awhile develop their own ways on qualifying clients; this done out of necessity. My point was that in general media - and I guess here too, it's always how the homeowner can avoid a bad contractor experience.Yet, I never see the opposite instructions for the contractor re:weeding out the customer from hell!

I much prefer a complimentary relationship, wherein we trust each other, our expectations mesh, and, as the contractor, we are eager to provide the very best service we can.

Btw, on rare occasion, I've broken up large contracts into smaller ones so that both we, and the client, can feel comfortable in moving forward. So, the 40K project becomes first a 10K segment of the overall work. Once completed, we then can write a new contract for the next segment, or phase, of the overall project, maybe another 12K. This has worked well for us, and helps avoid the pitfalls of being locked into a large contract that you may regret.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I much prefer a complimentary relationship, wherein we trust each other, our expectations mesh, and, as the contractor, we are eager to provide the very best service we can.


The procedure is just a formalized way to achieve these same objectives, especially to build trust.

Quote:
Btw, on rare occasion, I've broken up large contracts into smaller ones so that both we, and the client, can feel comfortable in moving forward...This has worked well for us, and helps avoid the pitfalls...


This is exactly what the procedure does. See, you're already doing important parts of the procedure. If it works well, consider doing it more often. That's what we did back in the 1980s, the procedure worked so well on the biggest projects that we just started using it on all our projects, even the smaller ones.

The idea that this building work should be done all at once is promoted by the building products industry because it makes more money for them. They operate in the Fast/things/Cheap consumer economy. It's clear you work in the entirely different Good/relationships/LowCost realm.

The procedure is designed to shift the people involved out of the Fast/things/Cheap economy and over to the Good/relationships/LowCost realm.

_________________
John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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