Problems (& Solutions) with Allback linseed paint
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Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For all of my windows I do an Oil Pre-Treatment.

75% Allback Boiled Linseed Oil
20% Turpentine
5% Zinc Oxide, Metallic Zinc, Zinc Napthenate & Borates

Saves big-time of having the 1st coat of Linseed Paint vanish into the wood.

Then I add ~5% Allback Zinc Oxide White to all of my paints.

Takes care of any problem since I started doing it.

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Drew Skuce
PSC Heritage Restoration
5-48 Woodslee Ave. Paris, Ont. Canada
www.ParadigmShiftCustoms.com
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jefinch



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Elverson, PA

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skuce wrote:
Takes care of any problem since I started doing it.

Did you experience problems before you were using the turpentine and zinc oxide?
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2972
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew,

>>5% Zinc Oxide, Metallic Zinc, Zinc Napthenate & Borates<<

Are these the ingredients in the Allback Zinc Oxide product?

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mhead110



Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:24 am    Post subject: Allback mildew Reply with quote

Amazing. I'm so tempted by the Allback PR, and the idea of using a traditional technique... spent many hours in the past few days reading through this thread and others; quite alarming.

Eventually, I decided to try it, do the best prep i can on my 250 year old house, and keep track of what I do.

I just called Allback to ask a few questions and place an order; I asked about adding a mildewcide to the paint and she said, no, no, gave the line about how this paint doesn't mildew, etc.

I also mentioned this thread, and the repeated requests for Allback to respond. The woman I was speaking to directed me to the web site and suggested adding zinc white or using boric acid in the pre-wash.

I said that I've been using borate as a wood treatment, and that it was unlikely they were selling boric acid, but that it would become an acid when added to water.

btw, Timbor's formulation is: disodium octaborate tetra hydrate-- in both the water-soluble crystal form (use in areas which won't get wet), and the oil emulsion you can use where water might get to the wood.

I brought up this thread, again, and the repeated requests for Allback to respond. Suddenly, the woman I was talking to started saying "hello? hello?" like she couldn't hear me any more. This seems very hard to believe, and a pretty Micky Mouse way to deal with difficult questions.

EDIT-- MY BAD-- THE PROBLEM WAS WITH MY PHONE.

I later spoke with another woman @ Silent Paint Remover / Allback and decided to just try it on one side of my house and see how it goes. I had picked up a used " silent paint remover" infrared heater from Craigslist for $200 with a burnt out bulb. A little high; hopefully it will work when I get the other bulb I just ordered. I will test out the various ways of stripping, pretreating and painting. Bought a moisture meter to be sure the wood is dry when I paint. Will report.
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Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jefinch wrote:
Skuce wrote:
Takes care of any problem since I started doing it.

Did you experience problems before you were using the turpentine and zinc oxide?


Yes. I had mildew blooming through a pair of storms I restored. Apparently I activated the spores dormant in the wood. Since there was nothing toxic in the Allback paint...the mildew fired up on the wood underneath.

Linseed Soap Extra also works as an "after" treatment. I prefer just to lace stuff with Zincs now to treat it before it has a chance to bloom.

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Drew Skuce
PSC Heritage Restoration
5-48 Woodslee Ave. Paris, Ont. Canada
www.ParadigmShiftCustoms.com
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Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnleeke wrote:
Drew,

>>5% Zinc Oxide, Metallic Zinc, Zinc Napthenate & Borates<<

Are these the ingredients in the Allback Zinc Oxide product?


No.

The only thing in the Allback product is Zinc Oxide.

The Metallic Zinc/Zinc Napthanate is in a clear decking preservative that Reco Chem makes up here in Canada.

I started using it to be sure I had an easy source of Zinc if I ever had a hard time locating the Allback Zinc.

The Zinc Napthanate is also a metal dryer that makes the linseed oils oxidize faster.

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Drew Skuce
PSC Heritage Restoration
5-48 Woodslee Ave. Paris, Ont. Canada
www.ParadigmShiftCustoms.com
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Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Allback mildew Reply with quote

mhead110 wrote:
Amazing. I'm so tempted by the Allback PR, and the idea of using a traditional technique... spent many hours in the past few days reading through this thread and others; quite alarming.

Eventually, I decided to try it, do the best prep i can on my 250 year old house, and keep track of what I do.

I just called Allback to ask a few questions and place an order; I asked about adding a mildewcide to the paint and she said, no, no, gave the line about how this paint doesn't mildew, etc.

I also mentioned this thread, and the repeated requests for Allback to respond. The woman I was speaking to directed me to the web site and suggested adding zinc white or using boric acid in the pre-wash.

I said that I've been using borate as a wood treatment, and that it was unlikely they were selling boric acid, but that it would become an acid when added to water.

btw, Timbor's formulation is: disodium octaborate tetra hydrate-- in both the water-soluble crystal form (use in areas which won't get wet), and the oil emulsion you can use where water might get to the wood.

I brought up this thread, again, and the repeated requests for Allback to respond. Suddenly, the woman I was talking to started saying "hello? hello?" like she couldn't hear me any more. This seems very hard to believe, and a pretty Micky Mouse way to deal with difficult questions.

EDIT-- MY BAD-- THE PROBLEM WAS WITH MY PHONE.

I later spoke with another woman @ Silent Paint Remover / Allback and decided to just try it on one side of my house and see how it goes. I had picked up a used " silent paint remover" infrared heater from Craigslist for $200 with a burnt out bulb. A little high; hopefully it will work when I get the other bulb I just ordered. I will test out the various ways of stripping, pretreating and painting. Bought a moisture meter to be sure the wood is dry when I paint. Will report.


The Allback Paint doesn't mildew. This is very true. There is no food source in the paint itself. The problem is that the mildew comes from the wood UNDER the allback paint. Then the mildew puts out a flower "through" the paint film to the surface. Then the flower spreads out on the surface for spore distribution.

This is why I add the MAX %10 Zinc to the mix. Usually %5 though (unless the paint already uses Zinc as a pigment)

I have a basketball hoop in my parents backyard. They put it up for me about 25 years ago. The entire thing is covered in mildew. It's almost black.
Except for the drip lines/areas from 2 large Zinc plated bolts. Those areas looks factory brand new.
The metallic Zinc has been oxidizing and running off the bolt heads very slowly.
That's the best field test that I could see. 25 years under a tree with never getting direct sun, but always being damp and cool.

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Drew Skuce
PSC Heritage Restoration
5-48 Woodslee Ave. Paris, Ont. Canada
www.ParadigmShiftCustoms.com
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drew, I see the same zinc effect around hot-dipped galvanized nails preventing mildew on barn board siding. I now recommend hot-dipped galvanized nails instead of stainless steel, especially on clapboard and shingle siding. It's proven to prevent fungal decay around the nails that can sometimes set in with stainless steel.
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Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Home-Brew "Tin-Zinc" electroplating setup from Eastwood if you want to do it yourself to random hardware.

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-electroplating-system-tin-zinc.html

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Drew Skuce
PSC Heritage Restoration
5-48 Woodslee Ave. Paris, Ont. Canada
www.ParadigmShiftCustoms.com
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rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with skuce, don't remember whether i posted it on this thread or on others on sawmillcreek, but the consensus opinion on these type of paints seems to be...it NEEDS something toxic in it. lead works wonderfully for that, of course.

i think the 'organic' marketing pitch from allback is the downfall of an otherwise very good idea for a product.

i honestly don't care about 'organic'. safe materials are all fine and good, but something has to be toxic to the parasites or parasites is what we'll have.

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Neal
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Don Wagstaff



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

Just browsing through this topic and get the idea the paint is getting some negative critique. Well, on the other side, I have just finished a section with absolutely no problems whatsoever. I am most pleased with the jug I brought from Sweden three or four years back and am just now getting around to putting on the wood.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff
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cabinfeverarts



Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should post positive feedback as well. I first put black linseed paint on a window restored four years ago. The window was stripped to bare wood prior to painting. It looks stupendous today. I've continued to use the black and white paint on restored exterior windows and a new wood door. Not one mold problem.

I am in the process of protecting a 100 year old log sauna. I'm using raw linseed oil to soak into the logs. I was so pleased at how the linseed oil made the color come back in the logs. They went from grey to gold and black (from old creosote). These pictures are from 2011. 2012 work involved linseed oil on the back and side plus window work (that "homemade" window job really is wacky--came from perhaps a 6 by 3 window cut down AND it was installed backwards! For some reason my family loved installing windows inside-out 'cause they are like that all over the place.) If anything, the oil from last year just soaked in, yet the log color is still vibrant. I will need to add more oil. I think with such old logs, I will be adding oil for consecutive years until they reach a saturation point. Only downside is I could really just pour the linseed oil jug on the structure but those jugs are EXPENSIVE! So it looks like one jug a year is the goal.

I should add that I just used plain raw linseed oil over the red paint/stain that was already present. The side worked well as that was probably an oil stain. But as this sauna has had a plethora of different "painters" work on it, the front must have a latex coat. So the gloss from the oil didn't penetrate like it did on the side. In the future I'll have to strip the latex off and then use linseed oil brick red--good match and I've already used it as a touch up under the lilies where the paint has worn off.

Because the sauna is at the base of a mountain with runoff going right down through the foundation to the lake, this would be "the" experiment to test linseed products under moist conditions. If anyone has suggestions on how to divert water from the foundation that would be appreciated. Unfortunately, the foundation is "mooshy" and the ground is not graded to help. We're still on the slant of the mountain--high ground behind the sauna, low ground in front. For other structures, we've tried a french drain and a long rock wall. Neither is enough to handle water runoff so we are still looking for solutions.








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Don Wagstaff



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sidney,

That looks great, especially all the different planks and patterns of the red siding. I wish I could help you out with linseed oil because I get mine pressed by the farmer neighbor right up the road here and pay him less than $3 per liter - a bargain and no transportation, packaging, marketing and in-between costs attached to boot. Straight from the land, onto my wood so to speak.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some flax is raised here, in the upper mid-west of US, but I think all of the oil production is captured by the big agri-biz corporations.

If you are going to find a local small-time source for linseed oil in the US it would most likely be in Missouri, North Dakota or Minnesota. The health food producers and suppliers might be a likely source.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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Don Wagstaff



Joined: 09 Sep 2010
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then again, a personal visit to one of those farmer/producers may pay off. It seems to me those locations are probably ideal for high quality flax growing. If your not there maybe a farmer near you might be interested in putting in a crop. Who knows they may even get a fair cent for the effort. They could probably even get a premium dollar for the pound if they did it organically.
And even if you only came home with a gunnysack full of seed, there is a fellow around here who makes a handy oil press for home use. It attaches to the work top just like your meat grinder for making sausages.

Greetings,

Don Wagstaff
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