Problems (& Solutions) with Allback linseed paint
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i whole heartedly agree with the theory of testing products prior to using them on large scale projects, but isn't that the responsibility of the manufacturer?


Yes, they should test their product, but we are responsible for testing our decision to use their product, and the methods and techniques we use with their product. The key is to take testing beyond theory and into actual practice, day by day, just like all the other work we do.

Quote:
as a long time member of the cynic's club, i don't trust most people who make a lot of money selling things


Neither do I, not one single little bit.

Quote:
but neither do i have the time or inclination to wait 5, 10 or 20 years to test out a product when the ingredients and/or the manufacturing process will have surely changed in that time period...it makes my head spin


Then you are in a bind with no escape, which is right where the paint manufacturers want you, in a state of stress and confusion, with your head spinning, so rational though is difficult. They don't want you thinking clearly when you decide which paint to buy.

This is exactly why I do not depend on the paint manufacturers and their products to make a good paint job. I depend on things that are under my own control, like methods and procedures, like knowledge and technique, like maintaining the paint after it is applied. In fact, for the last 15 years or so it has made little difference to me what paint is used, because the particular paint product does not contribute more than a few percent toward success--that's the secret that the paint manufacturers do not want anyone to know.

Why does this sound so upside down crazy? All this fretting over which brand and which product, the idea that one must be way better than another, is a myth created by the paint manufacturers and their marketers to confuse us and prevent us from engaging in rational thought and action.

Quote:
I think it best to maybe put a warning on my quotes, that says something like,
" We have prepared the surfaces of your sashes per the paint manufacturers guidelines, but sorry we cannot offer a warrantee against the failure of the paint we use or any other paint in the whole world. Do ya think that'll hurt business?"


That probably would hurt your business, but why take the blame on your own business when the fault is with the paint manufacturers? I just put it right back on manufacturers. Here is what I put in my agreements:

"The paint manufacturers are not providing very good paint at this time. I will do everything within my control to give you good paint work. When their paint fails you must maintain it and I will provide you with a complete description of how and when to do that maintenance."

Quote:
It's either this or raise my prices to include a certain amount of painting redoes.


You do not need to raise your prices, nor assume responsibility by calling it "redoing work." To cover this I include in my proposals and completion reports:

"When the paint fails you must follow these maintenance procedures: ... I will be pleased to give you a maintenance proposal and contract when it is needed."

Then I do not wait for them to call me. I call them when I know the paint maintenance will be needed.

In this way I am able to do paint jobs that last 15 to 20 years or more.

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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting to note that Allback is the only paint manufacturer that I know of that promotes a recommended maintenance procedure for their paint.

Now just think about this:

Why do none of the American paint companies talk about maintenance and repair of their paints?

Why do their technical help people clam up when I ask what the failure modes are for their products?

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Historicdoor



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John thanks for your kind reply! You do a fine job moderating this on line Forum even in your ripe old age of 60...and as always, THANK YOU for your faithfulness to it!
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About testing:

Quote:
....if i chose to use 3 different paint brands on one project employing the same prep methods and they all wear differently, i cannot be sure that the difference is due to the substrate, the weather, my mood, what model car is parked in the driveway or the products used... neither do i have the time or inclination to wait 5, 10 or 20 years to test out a product when the ingredients and/or the manufacturing process will have surely changed in that time period...now they have so many 'eco', 'one-coat-no-prime', 'green', 'environmentally friendly' paints, it makes my head spin...i think they now have about 5 different primers as well....in order to conduct a meaningful experiment, doesn't one component need to be a 'constant"?...


Part of the scientific method of testing is to change just the one thing you are interested in and keep everything else the same. Windows are particularly adaptable to this since in one building they typically are all made of the same materials and construction details, and there is the same weather exposure for a few or several, like all the windows on the south side of a building have about the same micro-climate. On the north side the micro-climate is probably different. So, a good test for window painting would be done on windows all on the same side of the building where the micro-climate is the same for each test window. A vehicle parked near a test definitely could influence the outcome of a test (say sun reflecting from the windshield onto the window day after day, year after year), so selection of the test area is important. In fact, my test of the Swedish/American paint and putty methods is on a window where a vehicle is frequently parked just 8 or 10' away, so I set up the two test areas very close to each other on the same sash, half & half. Any influence the vehicle may have is likely to be the same for both sides of the sash. This shows the value of field testing, where a common real-world situation like this comes up, that would never come up in laboratory testing, like baking the sash in the oven to simulate "accelerated weathering."

Quote:
linseed oil and mineral spirits aren't what they were 20 or 40 years ago, and paint seems to change annually...


Correct, so I don't bother testing different primers or paint products, they are going to change and that is out of my control. I test my methods, procedures and techniques, all things that are definitely under my control. When I get a test result that tells me one method is better than another, then I can definitely implement that method. This is impossible to do with paint products these day because they are always changing.

In a typical test I keep all the paint products the same, and change just one part of my methods or procedures. In a recent test on my barn paint project I set up two 10' wide sections from foundation to eaves about 14' high. The test areas are big enough that the substrate type and conditions average out to pretty much the same. On one section I did the common surface preparation of dry-sanding the wood surface of the old clapboards. On the other section I did the new wet abrasive scrub method. Everything else was the same, same clapboards, same wood moisture content for priming, same weather when painting, same paint products and same weather exposure over the long-term.

The thing about testing is that I can get some results immediately. For example, on this surface prep test I kept exact track of the time and materials for each so I have good sq.ft. estimating figures on each. On one test of filling window sill weather checks we tried out 7 different methods and materials on one sill. One was failing withing a few days, another in a few weeks. After figuring out why they failed we knew enough not to use those on that first phase of the window work. That test was placed in 1979, so as we did later phases of window work on that project over the next decade, the test was still in place and we could eliminate three or four others that failed within a few years. (see pages 21 to 27 of the current edition of Save America's Windows for photos of some of that first and other early weather-check filling tests.) After 30 years one of those seven check fillers is still performing well. That's the one that has become my own shop standard and the one I show in the book and teach at my training sessions.

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Last edited by johnleeke on Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i have recently received information from old village paint...talking with the rep was like talking to a trusted uncle who knew his stuff...so do i paint a sash and wait a decade to see how it holds up or follow the rep's instructions and hope for the best?


Do both, paint one sash, half of it following his instructions, half following your own method, and call it the Test of Who Do You Trust. Keep notes, and check up on results once every five years.

It would be worth testing because of the incredible value of a rep you actually could trust like an uncle.

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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the deal John,

We can't operate our business in a continual test mode. that would be counter productive in getting the work done and in particular with customer relations.

If you are a testing company its different. you present your services as such and you adjust pricing to accomadate any given product used that may fail quickly.

Again I need to operate my business and present to my customers that I am committed to the products and services that I use. And from that I warranty (for a time) against failures.

True I need to have an idea of how long they will last. That's why we must rely on Mfg's warrantees for products and from their we can sell longevity of service for a reasonable length of time. As accepted by our customers and by what is acceptable to us. (since we are the ones that will pay for repairs to any failures.)

We rely on our own experience, and sometimes gut feelings on what is acceptable and affordable.

Now, along with that we may be doing some indirect testing on particular products, just by using them. For example, we had been using Pro-block oil primer a few years back. It was shop friendly and seemed to hold up well. But after just a year or so, paint problems began showing up. That's when we switched to an alkyd slower drying primer. And although, it is not always shop friendly, most of the info we've gathered from various sources and from our ongoing experience we continue to use it. Even though we feel that alkyd primer is the best we will solve any ongoing minor problems we find and stand in back of it with a reasonable warranty.

This is just one example of the complexities of operating a "for profit business". As much as we sometimes, joke, complain, tease and offer opinions --- in the background we our intensely focused, working to offer the best services and products we can so our customers can enjoy real value for the money they spend. And we still need to focus on making a profit. I would bet I'm not the only owner of a "for profit business" That has stayed up or woken during the night worrying and thinking of solutions to various challenges.

I just cannot present myself to my customers in a continuous testing mode. I need to commit to and stand in back of the products and services I sell.

Small business owners are a unique breed of people. We are positive minded, (even if it doesn't sound like it sometimes) love challenges and are fully committed to our trade, all the time communicating knowledge and sensitivity to the unique needs of our customers. And all along the way knowing we must make a profit to continue doing what we do best.

That is not always easy.

Steve S
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm talking a lot about testing here, I've been operating my for-profit business all along, since the late 1960s. My concentration has been doing good work and making money. I've always done testing, but it's been a very very small part of my operations and attention since I've always been a one-person business. I think all effective tradespeople and smaller contractors do testing to some extent, perhaps mostly off-hand and only occasionally. My dad would hand me a new product or material and say, "here, dink around with this and let me know how it works." I realized I could turn dinking into thinking and get a lot more out of it. Now that I think about it, this happened because at the same time I was taking biology and physics in junior high and high school, learning about the scientific method and testing. By the time I started my own business I was doing it routinely, but always in a small way. It's always been a small part of what I do, part of my 'overhead' but it returns big dividends--that's why I talk about it a lot these days.

After my first few years I was getting a lot fewer "call-backs and re-dos," largely because of what I was learning from testing. That meant I was making more money, and also began to build my reputation for getting it right the first time.

We all spend a certain amount of time in our businesses trying to find out what we need to know. While I do talk with the manufacturers' technical reps, and my fellow tradespeople, I don't spend a lot of time on that. Instead I spend that on my own testing.

Testing is just another way to think about mistakes and failure problems, converting them from business liabilities into business assets.

Most of my customers don't know anything about my testing program. What they do know is that I'm the guy who usually gets it right and that's why I'm working for them.

Business, like everything else in life, is a balancing act. A little testing all along helps me keep my balance.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do not depend on the manufacturers and their products to create good work. I depend on things that are under my own control, like methods and procedures, like knowledge and technique... In fact, for the last 15 years or so it has made little difference to me what product is used, because the particular product does not contribute more than a few percent toward success--that's the secret that the product manufacturers do not want anyone to know.


Shhhh, don't tell anyone. The specific brand and product makes little or no difference.

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jefinch



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As to testing, in using Allback products I (and eventually the contractor) used my own tried and true techniques along with incorporating any information given to me by the Allback representative on the faith that the product was somewhat different and has been thoroughly tested in the field. Obviously there is a fly in the ointment somewhere. And this newly suggested regimen of preparation contains counter-intuitive products and a lot of extra work. Not to mention that I can't believe it has undergone much, if any, testing.

As to the mildew issue:
I yesterday received the following from my colleague who I quoted earlier in this discussion regarding condensation. See the attachment for the abstract text.
my colleage wrote:
I found the following item in the AATA database. The rather lengthy abstract that follows seems to support the contention that surface characteristics (roughness, micro-cracking or dirt entrainment) are enough to promote mold growth, and this is consistent with some of the observations stated in the HHW forum and in other sources I've consulted -- that a hard, glossy finish is more resistant to mold growth. I find this exciting, because it could mean that the solution to preventing mildew might not be limited to poisoning the paint can with toxic chemicals, but in ensuring that a hard, smooth cured film forms as soon as possible after the paint is applied. Understanding what happened in the failed parts of your paint-job, as well as your colleague's would be key to determining if application irregularities can result in mildew. Likewise, the presence of what one HHW forum participant called "mucilage" might also offer an explaination. I am a little suspicious of Allback's claim that the product is "natural" and "pure" without any technical offering as to how they accomplish that end.



Mildew on linseed paint Abstract Wd97.doc
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A "pre-Allback" document commenting on the growth of mildew on linseed paints.

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sschoberg



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Specific brands or products may not make a difference, but regardless of who's we use, we must be able to rely on the manufacturers statement of quality.

But the type of product we use is based on the appeal of a particular that we feel comfortable with.

The procedure we use to apply a particular product may be more important than the product iteself, but we still must rely on the manufacture statement of quality.

Steve S

I like the idea of paint having a hard finish being better to control mildew growth. It makes some sense.
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jade



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Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have no qualms about investing in siginificant prep labor if the resulting finished product is one i can stand by...i do however, want to know that there is a history of real time testing of the application and the product...

those of us who are willing to pay top dollar for a paint product typically engage in at least one or two conversations with the manufacturer's rep...when using oil based fine paints of europe paints, i used their paint brushes, primer and 'special' mineral spirits...these conversations and product purchases are part of our 'testing' procedures....

encouraged enthusiastically by a rep at fpe and after numerous conversations, i purchased and used their 'eco' paint product...it failed in under 30 days and the owner of the company hung up on me in the middle of a civil discourse...in 1996 i used ben moore oil based paint on my very first window restoration project...in 2007, i was pleased to find that the 11 year old paint job was holding up quite well....

i have been using the same basic methods for years now...what has changed is the paint product and what has failed prematurely on two projects is the paint...

i have had good luck with ben moore's metal/wood high gloss oil paint...my concern is that the 'hard' finish is less flexible than a soft gloss or an acrylic paint and it may experience a 'micro-crack syndrome' which will invite mold/mildew/fungus and premature failure...

it seems that for every 'plus' in one particular product, there is also a downside...that is why i prefer to speak with a chemist rather than a sales rep though both have an allegiance to the company...my conversations include an outline of the other products and methods that i use...a rep at ben moore suggests that their AURA paint will not work with my method of applying an oil conditioner to all wood surfaces prior to priming...i don't use AURA...i could 'test' it, but why would i want to take the chance that even one sash paint would fail?

when time allows i will retype an outline of 'organic wood consolidants' that was written in september of 2001 by a chemist and preservationist...

.....jade
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rosssams



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linseed oil and mildew: food for thought

I’m extremely impressed at how hard contributors to this thread are thinking about fungus. And given that so much time is given up voluntarily for the benefit of others, these contributions are to be applauded. However, amongst the good advice and serious concerns, there is the occasional comment that strikes me as misinformed or just plain confusing.

In the following two paragraphs I will expand on a simple concept: linseed oil is food, alkyd resin paint was once food but now is poison (acrylic is plastic and food for nothing).

Those following this thread will hopefully know the difference between linseed oil and alkyd resin paints:

Quote:
a class of polyester coatings derived from the reaction of an alcohol and an acid or acid anhydride hence the term alk-yd from "alcohol and acid or anhydride]"


Alkyd resin paint (better known in the UK simply as “gloss” paint, but in my childhood was simply called “oil” paint), and Sashco’s (mentioned in my last post) alkyd resin varnish, do have linseed and other oils as a major component, but their fatty acids are modified enormously. The thickness of the synthetic resins created necessitate solvents to make them liquid. No mildew will grow on this poisonous and artificial concoction. Many of the people contributing to mildew questions -- on other fora I hasten to add --, especially those dedicated to log cabins, seem to think that the use of linseed oil in the manufacture of alkyd resin varnishes will create a meal for fungus. This is evidence that too many people are happy to post comments on things about which they basically know nothing. When was the last time you heard complaints that the good old gloss/oil paints of thirty years ago were prone to mildew? And, as for a slick shiny surface, it is often the modified linseed oil that puts the gloss in gloss paint. Linseed oil forms a glossy finish, and while it does not form a hard surface, it is very elastic, so it should be free of “micro cracks” for many many years.

Now, I honestly have no idea what Allback mean when they say they have removed the protein from their linseed oil. Nor do I understand what is meant by “denatured” linseed oil (for me, that would normally mean the point at which is was no longer edible). My understanding is that almost any linseed oil sold industrially, whether cold pressed on a farm or steam pressed in a factory, will be purified, in the sense of removing all manner of extraneous husk (full of protein) and water, usually by precipitation and often with the application of an acid. The oil is made up of several different fatty acids and it is possible that some secret cleaning treatments (a passion shared by a few, odd fine-art oil painters) will modify the oil to make it “superior”. But I am uneasy about the way “purified” is bandied about by some commentators, as if there is some hideous contaminant hiding in ordinary linseed oil. Any way, “fat” should give you a clue to the oil’s real nature. If you smeared butter on an outside wall, would you be surprised if mildew grew on it? No. Cold pressed, linseed oil can be used in salad dressings. But linseed oil is largely made of unsaturated fats, so don’t eat it in large quantities if you are watching your figure.

In plain words, please do not say that Allback paints are insufficiently purified or sterilised. That is nonsense. The paint does not leave Sweden full of bacteria and fungus. The paint does not arrive in the USA full of invisible fungus-food contaminants. Natural oil is edible. It is only surprising that mildew is not a more common problem with natural paints.

And why isn’t it more common? Lacking recourse to any scientific studies on the problem, I can only suggest the following factors: treatment of the oil that makes it less tasty to mushrooms, added ingredients that may act as fungicides, and the speed of drying. This much is true from my simple experience, mildew will grow more extensively on raw linseed oil than linseed oil in any other form.

Linseed oil is often modified in one of four simple ways that could still leave it classified as fairly “natural”, adding oxygen, heating, adding metals, exposure to sunlight. All make linseed oil less edible to humans and, I’m guessing, to fungus. Added oxygen makes the oil more acidic, which makes it less prone to mildew. I have no idea what heating does to oil in terms of possibly making it less edible. Allback add metals (better known in the hardware store as “boiled” linseed oil) as driers. Most natural paint manufacturers do. Many metals are fungicides. Some pigments may similarly act as fungicides, although that is not their intended use. Iron oxide is a common pigment and iron does retard fungal growth. Drying may be one of the keys to avoiding mildew. Olive oil is not a drying oil. It doesn’t polymerise. It will surely generate mildew growth. Do not use it as a varnish or paint. Linseed oil is still not properly, completely “dry” for some time, perhaps a year or more if applied thickly. An interesting question then is, “does the mildew growing on your linseed oil paint continue to get worse over time?” It is theoretically possible that the growth will stop and, once cleaned and killed, will not return.

My own linseed paint concoction contains blown linseed oil, pine resin, grapefruit peel solvent, pigments and driers. It is hard to separate out what prevents the growth of mildew on it. Pine resin is extruded from the tree when it is scarred to heal and prevent infection, so it is definitely a fungicide. Hydrocarbon solvents will kill almost anything (pinenes – hydrocarbons from conifers – are used as disinfectants). A heavily oxidised linseed oil is extremely acidic. As a natural paint, mine is not particularly good eating. And the paint dries quickly. So which of these elements is most important in making it mildew free? I don’t know.

The bottom line is this. Allback paint is little more than local Swedish linseed oil with driers and pigments. It is as natural and “green” a paint as you’ll find. Mildew sometimes grows on linseed oil, and this depends on all sorts of variables, from your regional weather and local fungus species, time of year and thickness of application, dryness of timber, probably even the batch of oil used to make the paint. My hat is off to them, even as future competitors, for making such a success of pure plant oil as a paint. One that dries and rarely goes moldy.

As painters you have to weigh up five things. How much does the paint cost to do the job (actual cost and extra labour, including application and preparation), does it look good, will it last or cause you to be called back to sort its premature failure, how much do you or your customers care about global warming, and how much do you care about keeping small independent businesses going against the tide of economic domination by multinational industries. ICI, DuPont, Sherwin Williams, they don’t care about natural paint. You do.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ross:

Your essay describes my understanding of the issues and my own experience with the materials almost to a "T."

Quote:
Linseed oil is still not properly, completely “dry” for some time, perhaps a year or more if applied thickly.


One linseed oil finishing recipe and method I learned from my father in the 1950s involved (this was a very "involving" finish that actually had 3 different recipes), it involved applications and treatments once a day for a week, once a week for a month, and once a month for a year.

We actually used this finish method on a handful of projects as I grew up in in his shop. Two years ago I was back home and visited a big house up on the hill where we made and installed walnut paneling, a table, dining chairs and side chairs, over a five year period in the early 1960s. All of those finishes were still holding up perfectly after nearly half a century.

We also used olive oil for finishing. We had contracts with all the big and small restaurants and butcher shops to plane down and refinish their wooden chopping blocks twice a year. The finishing material was olive oil.

Another time we recreated a milk paint that my dad had made to paint his mother's house, in the 1930s, during the great depression, when there was no money to buy paint. He made his own out of spoiled skim milk from the ag campus at the university, clay dug from the bank of Salt Creek, and brick dust from Yankee Brick Yard. In the 1960s the back of our shop needed painting, so we went to the same places and got the same materials and made the paint. In 2001 our family sold that place and the paint on the back of the shop was still holding up nicely.

Each finishing material and method has its use and place.

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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ross, thanks for your contributions....very interesting reading...

attatched is a composition reflecting on wood 'consolidants'...i continue to use linseed oil and turpentine as a conditioner prior to primer and finish paint...i have added Penetrol ( http://www.flood.com/paint-additive-solutions/products/view-product.jsp?productId=11 ) to the mix in these proportions: 40% blo, 40% penetrol and 20% turpentine....

...jade



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cabinfeverarts



Joined: 05 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Interior Linseed Paint Reply with quote

I just sent an email with questions to Viking Sales about how to use the interior paint products. Here's a copy. Maybe folks here have tried the interior paint and have suggestions. I'll also post the reply if/when I receive one from Viking Sales.

"I am a fan of your linseed oils and paints. However, I recently tried an interior application on drywall which proved difficult. I tried the shellac primer and I just don't get it. I feel like it was likely a waste of money as I don't understand what it accomplished. Perhaps I'm thinking of the product differently from the intended purpose. Here's what I did. I spread 1 L of product over the new drywall in an enclosed porch. The ceiling was a sloppy mess trying to get the liquid primer to not drip from the brush down my hand and arm. But maybe that's unavoidable (I'm a do-it-yourselfer and not a paint professional). Everything was streaky and sloppy. What is this product suppose to look like when applied? Is it suppose to go on thickly, thinly .... an video clip on the website would be helpful here.

Then I proceeded to use the interior paint. I've only used the exterior paints before. I was surprised at how much more interior paint I needed to use. It does not spread like the exterior paints. Hence, the repeated ordering of small quantities. It looks like I am going to need for sure 3 coats, if not a fourth. The paint is hard to spread with a brush. I'm curious about temperature and added water as I think they are important variables. First, the spreading is better when I add water, but then the the stroke may be thinner, requiring more coats anyway down the line. In about 60 seconds, I can't go over the same spot with the brush as it seems to dry (or set) too fast. Here is where I think the temperature comes into play. It is a cold enclosed porch (snow outside. I'd say the climate here is extremely close to that in Sweden. About 1/3rd of the population today has Finnish ancestry as about 100 years ago they settled in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan because it probably reminded them of home.) With the extremely fast setting of the paint, I had to paint about a square foot area, then move to the opposite wall to paint a square foot, maybe another square foot on another wall before being able to go back to the first wall without the brush interfering with the first spot. I had planned to use a space heater--expecting the cold temperature on an unheated porch to be a problem--but I ended up foregoing that to "slow" the drying time down. Without the heater, I could paint, say, about two square feet at a time instead of one square foot. Still it just was frustrating to not be able to work on one wall without having to stop and start for fear of messing up the paint by dragging the brush through "half-set paint."

In sum, I realize the linseed products take a different approach than paints in a hardware store. I've figured out the exterior linseed paints, but the interior stuff still boggles my mind. Please share some of the paint application wisdom with me if possible. As it looks like the cost is about $150 for a little porch, that combined with the difficult paint application, I'm thinking of not continuing to use interior linseed paints. However, as $40 of the exterior paint covers such a larger surface area I'm very happy to continue with that product in exterior work.

My last question is in anticipation of using the Linseed Soap Extra product, which I just ordered. I have been working on restoring windows--sashes and frames. The online instructions say to rinse with a hose. That does not seem wise with smaller window work. For example, I have been working on a boarded up window (attached picture) in the winter. What I did to treat the rot was allow a borax/boric acid solution in water to penetrate into the wood. Using the linseed soap extra would be similar but as it's a "soap" I see the need for a rinsing step as mentioned, but with the "interior" winter-time application, hosing it down wouldn't really work. Even in the summer it would be too messy to attempt to keep the water from getting indoors. I understand using a hose for siding work, but how about other applications such as this? What is recommended? I've just ordered the product and so haven't tried it out. I'm just curious about how the product can be used in finer detailed applications. "



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