Problems (& Solutions) with Allback linseed paint
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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just returning from training at the Allbacks facility, Hans did give me instructions on the Linus paint. To be truthful, other than working with it on sample sections of drywall at his shop, I have not personally used it on any full rooms. However, at his home, apartments and shop I did see many of the rooms that have been painted with Linus and they looked good. I did not notice any of the usual roller streaks which can occur when you "dry-roll" on acrylics and the final surface was smooth and streak free.

That being said, the interior Linus is a product that one has to handle differently than the "hardware store paint" we are used to. In my sample use, I found it to spread very well without sticking to itself. I am not sure if you received and reviewed the Allback paint directions and have attached them for your review. I have also attached a photo of the roller we used. It was a very long fabric type roller which Hans recommended. If I recall correctly it was because it held more paint so you could work areas further. The sheetrock under the roller was not primed with shellac. The paint area worked on was approximately 4 to 5 sf and I had no problem with the paint adhering back to the roller. I am not doubting that you had that issue but I wonder if either the roller was not the best roller pad to use with the paint or the surface was to cold (based on your description)

The directions attached from Allback are pretty straightforward regarding test areas with different roller types and that the Linus paint works differently then what you are used to.

I hope this helps somewhat.




Directions: LINUS Interior paint

Product specification:
The Linus paint contain: organic purified linseed oil, water, cellulose, inorganic fillers, earth pigment and dryers.
The Linus paint can be painted on any type of interior surfaces. Wood, painted surfaces, plaster, wall paper, dry wall are excellent examples for Linus applications.
Linus paint works well for touching up and it is washable. Dry time is 24 hours.
Coverage: 180 sq feet / quart or 10 sq. Meters.
Linus paint is available in 12 colours and can be individually mixed. To create additional effects, lava stone powder can be added to the paint roller at the time of the paint application or can be directly mixed into the paint for a course surface.
Available packaging: Quart US gallon (3 Litre). White in 1 liters.

Surface Preparation
:
The Linus paint has a very thick consistency and can be thinned out to create various effects. It is very important to do a test to make sure you get the results you desire prior to beginning the painting project. Coverage depends on how absorbent the surface is. If the surface is very absorbent, apply the Allbäck Shellac primer. This is a water based product and requires no special precaution for the application. There is no alcohol or other chemical ingredient in this primer.

Painting:
Remove the surface water in the can after you have removed the paint can lid. Stir the paint completely. Use a paint mixer. If you find the paint hardened on the surface, remove this first with a strainer or a cheese cloth before you start painting. Test the correct roller and test before to make sure to achieve the desired surface. Many types of rollers create various finished surfaces patterns.


Sample test:
If you desire a smoother surface, add water to the paint. Test at each stage after water is added. If you experience streaks or more pronounced patterns, allow the paint to dry completely. Sand the surface with 180 grid sandpaper. Re-apply the paint. Try various roller types. Apply the paint along the wall corners. Thereafter, use a roller or a paint brush to complete the surface. The paint will cure relatively quickly, it is therefore important to finish a smaller area ( 10 sq feet ) at the time. Then continue. Use relatively large amount of paint in the roller or in the paint brush when applying the LINUS paint. When the paint is drying you may experience a smell from the organic linseed oil. Ventilate well especially if the smell is irritating. The smell disappears gradually. Allow the first coat to completely dry. It may take 24 hours. Clean the roller or the paint brush between each coat. Water that remains in the roller may create white spots on the surface. Spots can also appear if the paint is not completely stirred. Apply a second and a third coat if needed.

Post painting:
If you are going to store the remaining paint in the paint can. Pour a small amount of water on top of the paint as a sealer to prevent the LINUS paint from drying unintentionally. It can then be stored several years without drying. The LINUS paint is completely cured after a few weeks it is therefore important to make sure to prevent any wear until after two weeks. Wash the rollers and brushes in a pail. Avoid flushing the cleaning water down the city sewer. Water treatment plants have a difficult time removing pigment. Allow the pigment to sink to the bottom of the pail for a few weeks. Pour the water off and dispose the pigment in your house hold garbage.
Always read our paint suggestion prior to painting. Good luck.


LINUS paint suggestion;
Usually, most of our customers want to use the LINUS paint with the same consistency as you may be used to with any acrylic paint, using paint brush to apply the paint onto trim and corners and then finish the larger surfaces with a roller. The LINUS paint has a very thick consistency and can therefore be thinned with water by approximately 10%. It is important to use a high quality roller. Test various roller types to get the end result you desire. The risk to get streaks on the surface is less likely if the paint is slightly diluted. It is more advantageous to apply a few thin coats than one or two thick coats
.

Using LINUS as a spackle.

When removing the lid, remove the surface water in the can. It needs to be as thick as possible. If the LINUS paint is to thin to be used as a spackle, add lava powder into the paint or allow the water in the paint to evaporate. Leave the lid off the paint.
The thick consistency of the LINUS paint can be used on wallpaper seams or in general filling of uneven areas and skin coating to level out uneven surfaces. If is also advantageous to use spackle that is the same colour as the finished paint colour to increase durability of the paint. This LINUS paint is very durable and is completely fire resistant.

Using LINUS to create a Stucco finish:
The LINUS paint can be applied with a heavy pile roller to create a stucco finish.
Add lava stone powder so it can be applied as thick as possible. After it is dry, small cracks on the surface may appear. This will be filled when the following coats of the LINUS paint will be applied.

LINUS as a stain.
Dilute the LINUS paint. Maximum 50%. Do not use the shellac primer. It may slightly discolour the first coat of the LINUS paint.


LINUS for stencilling
Undiluted LINUS paint can very effectively be used to create stencils. LINUS black and gold contain more organic purified linseed oil compared to other LINUS colours.

LINUS as a black board paint
Apply as smooth as possible. Wipe with a damp cloth.
LINUS for furniture
The LINUS paint will give you a cleanable, smooth and semi gloss surface. Apply the paint as desired. Use a soft paint brush. Allow it to completely dry. Sand the surface with 180 grid sandpaper. Apply the linseed oil wax. Buff with a nylon sock. When the organic linseed oil wax is applied you will have a softer surface but this will gradually disappear once the wax is dry.

Fast drying – using wood glue as a hardener.
Stir in approximately 10% wood glue into the LINUS paint. Dilute with water as needed to a desired consistency.

Using the shellac primer with LINUS.
The shellac primer can be brushed onto a surface that absorbs liquid excessively. Example; plaster, drywall, wall paper etc, the shellac primer will decrease the need for multiple coats of paint and will create and even colour surface with just few coats.

Apply 2 cats of the primer and then apply the LINUS as suggested. The primer will slightly colour the first coat of paint. This will disappear in the second coat.

February 2010

www.allbackpaint.com



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cabinfeverarts



Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sswiat wrote:
The paint area worked on was approximately 4 to 5 sf and I had no problem with the paint adhering back to the roller. I am not doubting that you had that issue but I wonder if either the roller was not the best roller pad to use with the paint or the surface was to cold (based on your description)


I used a natural brush, not a roller. It looks very good when finished--nice vertical and horizontal brush stroke pattern. It's just so hard to manipulate, takes so long, and is WAY too pricey. It will probably be $150 for a little tiny porch when all finished compared to $30 of hardware store paint. I can't see doing this throughout the whole house. It is just not economical.

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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood. Maybe it is not a paint for brushing large areas because of its characteristics?

I think the price issue is always tough for small manufacturers(which Allback is) just as it is for the micro-brewers, small organic farms, custom furniture manufacturers, etc. Unfortunately small paint companies like Allback aren't pumping out the large volumes of paint that a Ben Moore or Sherwin Williams does and thus cannot ever achieve the economies of scale to get the paint down to $30/gallon. Even the amount imported by Viking Sales is adds cost because he is not importing on a large scale (like a Walmart does).
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cabinfeverarts



Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that is very understandable. As a small business owner myself, it makes perfect sense. The trouble is I can understand paying double, maybe triple, but five times as much is too much for anyone on a budget. The exterior paint is different because it really spreads and you can cover a much larger surface area. Like advertised, you get twice the surface area as regular paint that evaporates. I'm still using the same two exterior paint cans so I'm happy with that investment. The Linus paint just doesn't work the same way. It almost seems like I get less surface area with the Linus paint as opposed to regular paint.
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sidney:

Why don't you just use the regular Allback linseed oil paint for you interior project? Sure, it's made for exterior work, but I bet it works on interior surfaces too.

I don't see why a water-based paint is needed in the Allback lineup of products. It seems like an unnecessary complication. What are the advantages of the Linus paints compared to the regular all-oil paints? I'm hoping the Allbacks aren't simply jumping on the paint industry bandwagon and offering a water-borne product just because it's the paint industry thing to do.

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Historicdoor



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 94
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly, John. I always suggest that my customers use "exterior grade" products on anything that is adjacent to the outside environment even if it "faces" the inside of a structure. I have yet to find a water-based product in any formulation (admittedly I have not tried them all) that meets my standard of performance and appearance. The non-solvent linseed oil paints achieve the environmental concerns many of us have and give us a depth of color that is tough to beat!

Just because the advertisers say "exterior" does not mean that it can't be used on interior projects as well. I would have definitely used the regular linseed oil paint on the porch project described in these postings. The only modification is that I would have given more deference to the temperature. While the linseed oil paints can be used in colder temperatures, I have found that all coating applications perform better in warmer temperatures...the warmer the better. You can purchase a hand held laser thermometer for less than $75...test the surface temperature of the item being coated not just the air temperature...big difference!

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cabinfeverarts



Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, I will consider the exterior paint for interior work. I'm using it on all the wood trim anyway. My one reservation was ease of cleaning the walls. I find the exterior stuff to attract dirt and that shows significantly on white. So I wanted to try the interior stuff since they particularly advertised the washable aspect.

Here's Soren's reply to my email with questions on the Linus paint application and linseed soap extra.

"Hello,
Pleas let me try to answer you questions below.
-Linus interior paint is a completely different product compared to the exterior organic linseed oil paint. It is made from cellulose, earth pigment and a little bit of organic boiled linseed oil.
Surface must be completely clean and dry.
- Linus interior paint is mainly meant for interior walls but can be used on any surface. It holds up on a fire place too.
-Applying the Linus is best with a roller the same way as any other type of paint. It goes on quite thick. Thin the paint with 20% water if needed.
-The Linus paint will create somewhat of a textured surface. Use a foam roller for the smoothest surface.
-The primer is best applied with a high quality roller too. If it drips, use less primer in the roller.
-The temperature should be around 70's. Keep a small fan going to get the water evaporation going faster.
Linseed Soap
Rinsing the linseed oil soap can be done with a hose on the exterior for efficiency. It is not critical to completely rinse the linseed oil soap when using the linseed oil paint product. It is not at all as using a chemical soap. What is important is that the surface is dry before the paint is applied. You can wipe the surface down with a microfiber cloth.
Thank you
Soren Eriksson"

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waterfield



Joined: 05 May 2010
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:03 am    Post subject: Another Allback mildew problem Reply with quote

Three years ago I created some test patches on my buildings to evaluate the Allback exterior paint system. Last summer the test patches began growing visible mildew, to my great dismay.

I have the care of seven mid-19th farmstead buildings (timber-frame, wood sided) in the Albany, NY region. Of the seven, six are barns, now unheated and unoccupied by animals. The paint on these buildings is largely gone (formerly red oxide, with white trim) and they are a reddish tone (from the long-departed red paint) of typically grey-brown weathered white pine siding. Only vestiges of the orginal paint are high under the eaves. I suspect that they haven't been recoated since pre-WW II at the earliest, perhaps not since the first quarter of the 20th-c. (I have late 1880's photos showing a fresh paint job.)

The sixth building is a timberframed house thickly coated with white, chalky paint, probably last recoated about 25-30 years ago. About 15 years ago I painstakingly removed the paint to bare wood on the north exposure of one wing, made small repairs, fixed cracks, laid on a coat of BLO/turps concoction, primed and top coated with two coats of the highest quality of SW exterior oil paint. I used special custom tinting to achieve a lovely, unique effect, highlightling the beautiful Greek Revival trim. I admit I was very pleased with myself and pictured how lovely the whole house would be when completed.

Fortunately for me that was all the time I had that first summer, because by June of the next year it was clear I had a disaster on my hands as the surface was covered with ugly mildew, while adjacent surfaces with the same exposure and interior usages (and typical lack of interior moisture inhibition) remained mildew-free. Of course later I learned about the dreaded BLO/mildew connection which took the wind out of my sails and there my wonderful paint project stalled. Twice a year I wash the mildew off with bleach water, and gnash my teeth.

When I read about the Allback paints it seemed to be such an excellent prospect, so I set up test patches on the north and south sides of some of the other buildings. I used adjacent split patches of plain Allback linseed oil and patches of linseed oil, followed by red paints. All applied exactly as indicated, with direct communication with the Allback USA staff. The painting was done in early summer (June), during the early afternoon of warm clear days (thin oiling coats over two days, followed by paint coats over two days). I don't have records of the temps or rH, but I am quite confident that it wasn't cool or damp days, or late in the day. The first year, I noticed the buildings had acquired an unusual number of insect cocoons attached only where the the surfaces had been oiled and/or oiled and painted and not at all to any adjacent surfaces. I was unable to determine which insect, but wondered if I liked having quite so many of them (more than 3 or 4 per square foot). This spring there were much fewer insect cases, but in early March when I inspected the patches the mildew was widely evident on all of the north-facing Allback-coated surfaces (though not on immediately adjacent uncoated areas), but none of south facing Allback patches.

The late summer of 2009 was unusually damp in my area, but I first noticed slight mildew early in the summer of 2009 when we had experienced an equally unusual, long period of drought in April-June. So while I think the late-season conditions contributed to the bloom visible this spring (2010), that certainly is not the whole story. The mildew, which from my experience painting the nearby (less than 100 feet) farmhouse wing, is obviously endemic on this site, was apparently not any more inhibited by use of the Allback products than it had been using conventional products.

I am very disappointed, to say the least.

My application techniques followed those recommended three years ago (no shellac, as mentioned above per more-recent instructions). If the experiments had been successful, I would have cheerfully sprung for the considerable extra product cost for the Allback paints in return for the advertised longevity and reoiling prospects to avoid repainting. The siding of the barns is considerably checked from its long naked exposure so I doubt I could expect reasonable adherence or coverage with conventinal paint films unless I hand sand the surfaces. At this point my only choices appear to be just letting the barns continue to weather or having them spray painted with a semi-solid stain. (I have just tonight read about John Leeke's wet sanding work on his barns, which is intriguing, though leading to even more painting of the six large barns.) The farmhouse is a different story, because it has remained painted (actually, by now seriously over-coated) so I have more options - if I can just figure out which product remaining on the market is worth investing my time on. I just turned 60 this year; I figure I have one, possibly two, more entire painting cycles left in my shoulders and scaffold-stamina. So this time I have to get it right.

Any suggestions?
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jessie, welcome to the Forum. I'm right with you on the "60 years" and also carefully considering how I will spend the remainder of my life working on, and living in, our old place.

"Good on you" for testing first. I'd like to hear more about your Allback testing. You placed your test about the same year as I placed my first one with Allback materials. Can you attach some photos of your test patches?

Quote:
The farmhouse is a different story, because it has remained painted (actually, by now seriously over-coated) so I have more options - if I can just figure out which product remaining on the market is worth investing my time on.


I suggest posting this as a new topic with more detailed descriptions of the existing surfaces. Keep in mind that success is found in the methods you use, not in the products.

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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I studied with Hans Allback in Sweden last February I did address the issue of mold. Hans advised the following:

If you have concerns about mold/mildew on the surface you are painting, it should be cleaned thoroughly of any existing mold/mildew. Zinc White should be added to the paint up to 20% to eliminate/reduce any mold growth.

The Allback paint line is 100% organic and does not contain any mildecides as the petro-chemical paints do. If Hans were to add Zinc white, the paint would have to be labeled with a " fish in a circle with a line through it" symbolizing that there were ingredients that cause environmental issues to fish. Apparently, zinc is hazardous to new-born fish.

Hans believes that the Zinc white should only be added when needed and not as the petro-chemical industry does in every can of paint.

I have new sash that were painted 3 years ago and exposed to every direction with no mildew growth. I have also painted a front entrance and awning last year (after they were stripped and repaired with no signs of mildew growth).


To address the naphtha that is listed as an ingredient, naphtha is used in the Allback production process to liquefy the manganese drier put in the paint. As Hans explained, different pigments will cause the linseed paint to dry at different rates. To equalize the drying of paints across the color spectrum, the manganese is added. To liquefy it, naphtha is used. The amount is very, very minimal of the liquefied manganese added to the paint. As Hans explains, the naphtha is put in the manufacture process but also removed in the manufacture process. In fact, he lists since he list all ingredients in his paint however, he "technically" could not list the naphtha if desired.


This is a photo of the barn on the Allback residence. A few years ago Allbacks painted the barn. Hans had some red paint he was using on another project at that time with the zinc white added in. To wipe of the excess paint when he was finished, he painted one of the battens. All of these boards if I recall were painted 5 years ago.



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Last edited by sswiat on Wed May 05, 2010 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hans believes that the Zinc white should only be added when needed and not as the petro-chemical industry does in every can of paint.


Is Zinc White one of the Allback products?

I like the way Jessie tested the Allback system first. Now we can do some tests with Zinc White. Of course, another round of tests will take time. Things do go slowly in the realm of LowCost/Good/relationships. It takes time to develop a relationship with these new materials, but the result can be Good, and in my view are more likely to be Good. Slow is Good. (it almost sounds unAmerican)

If you need results faster you can use the American paint products found over in the Fast/things/Cheap wasteland of the American consumer economy. Some things have to happen fast, and when they do this is where you get it.

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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zinc White is an Allback product.
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waxahatchie



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 99
Location: the other portland

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: testing in the rain Reply with quote

we will soon have some more data points: i have a pail of allback in lichen and a can of vintage white; these soon will go on 6 or so small windows in our basement.
it rains almost as much as the stereotype says it does here, so we shall see how mildew does or does not flourish. i may even get some zinc white to add to the paint on one window ... for fun! :)
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rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnleeke wrote:
Sidney:

Why don't you just use the regular Allback linseed oil paint for you interior project? Sure, it's made for exterior work, but I bet it works on interior surfaces too.

I don't see why a water-based paint is needed in the Allback lineup of products. It seems like an unnecessary complication. What are the advantages of the Linus paints compared to the regular all-oil paints? I'm hoping the Allbacks aren't simply jumping on the paint industry bandwagon and offering a water-borne product just because it's the paint industry thing to do.


pure speculation, but semi-gloss or thicker interior acrylics are a suitable vapor barrier. that's why i use the thicker acrylic gloss paints on my inside walls. no basement funk working its way into my bedroom that way ;).

i would think people in europe who are restoring inside plaster walls would prefer thicker inside wall paint for that reason too.
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Sean



Joined: 27 Dec 2006
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Location: Salem, MA

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the zinc white a replacement for the white lead of days gone by?
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