Interior Clear Finish Plan - Comments Appreciated
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cindybythesea



Joined: 19 Jul 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Cleveland, OH

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:51 pm    Post subject: Interior Clear Finish Plan - Comments Appreciated Reply with quote

I am a novice currently restoring 40+ double hung windows from a 1926 home in Cleveland, OH. I've taken the windows down to bare wood - interior & exterior. I'm planning to use John's process with the following products. Any suggestions are welcome.

My biggest concern is the interior finish product. I have picked the Waterlox product as they have very detailed instructions on their website. Other spar varnishes I looked at include Cabot, Helmsman, McCloskey’s Man-O-War Spar Marine Varnish, and Epifanes - my head is spinning. The Waterlox advertises it can be used right out of the can.

Interior finish:
1. Sand to 220 grit
2. Stain - my floors were done with Minwax Provincial oil stain - should I just use the same stain? I'd like a similar color.
3. Prime with a thinned down (75% varnish, 25% mineral spirits) varnish coat followed by 2 film building coats using Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish varnish. (Clean build up off side edges). Note: The Waterlox website does not recommend sanding between coats. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
4. Seal dado with thinned down varnish coat as well.

Exterior finish
5. Sand to 150 grit?
6. Bed and set glass with Sarco putty that is tinted with ??? I'd like it to match the interior stain more closely, a browish color.
7. Prime exterior with oil based primer - Benjamin Moore alkyd primer -
8. Two coats of Benj. Moore - Mooreglo Brilliant White acrylic paint. (Clean off side edges)

The window frames have already been painted with Sherwin Williams Duration which I've heard may have adhesion issues. What do you think of the Ben Moore products? Or should I use an oil based paint?

Any and all suggestions are welcome. Thank you for reading my post.

Cindy
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rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wash the insides with alcohol or mineral spirits to first inspect for paint residue. if there is any, the waterlox will highlight it, not hide it, it penetrates. what it looks like when it's wet will be what it looks like when it's finished, minus color variation.

that said waterlox is very easy to brush or wipe and should give you a decent finish after the fact especially if you use satin. higher glosses will require more meticulous prep to get the sheen right.

yes you can use the stain from your floors but experiment first. you might need to put a coat of shellac on the windows as a sealer to prevent uneven absorption.

if you can find an old door at a salvage yard made out of the same species as your windows that would be ideal.

note that waterlox has a reddish tint due to the resin used to produce it. that might not match your floors. again, experimenting on similar wood to find the right mix and match is the way to go.

note that the waterlox will need time to cure as well (couple weeks). airflow over the windows will help speed that up, but not a lot. you'll have to keep them clear of their jambs for awhile to let them cure.

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Neal
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cindybythesea



Joined: 19 Jul 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Cleveland, OH

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Neal,

Thank you for your suggestions - particularly the alcohol/mineral spirits to check for paint residue. That is a terrific idea which I will do.

I'm glad to hear the waterlox is very easy to apply, and I am planning to use the satin - i thought the higher gloss products would be more difficult and given my novice status, I didn't want to try it.

I didn't realize I could use shellac as a sealer before staining. Is there a particular brand you recommend or have used sucessfully?

The windows are likely made from old growth pine. House was built in 1928 and the windows are original. The graining looks like pine. I have stained the back of one of the window sills and it came out very even and lovely.

I know the windows may be different, as they are likely from a different manufacturer, so I may not have the same results. As per your suggestion, I'm thinking to try the stain samples on the sides of the windows so it is the same wood of the same age. I could also apply the waterlox to check the colors - I didn't know it had a reddish tint. Then, I could sand off these experiments so I don't foul up the ability of the window sash to move in the jamb.

I read about the curing of the waterlox, and I have a place to do this that I can ventilate well so they can fully cure.

Would you finish the inside wood first, then bed the glass and finish the outside? Should I wait until the inside is cured before bedding the glass?

Or should I do this process in reverse - bedding the glass, putty & paint the outside then finish the inside with the stain and waterlox?

Waterlox Products - A description of the Waterlox products follows this paragraph. I'm thinking about using the original sealer and giving it six months. If it is still too glossy, I can coat with the satin finish product described below. Have you tried the waterlox marine finish? According to their website, the original sealer is for interior applications and the marine for exterior only. Any thoughts or comments?

Thank you for your help. Cindy

Product descriptions from Waterlox Website:

Waterlox Original Sealer - product number TB 5284.
Produces a medium sheen appearance (75° gloss level when finished; fades to a 50-55° gloss level in 3-6 months). The 350 VOC formulation is product number TB 6038. This product is both a sealer and finish coats that is formulated as a traditioanl interior penetrating Tung oil.

There is also a Waterlox Original Satin Finish that can be used over the the Original Sealer. The satin finish is product number TB 6044, and the satin sheen is a 20°-25° gloss level. There are two VOC compliant formulations available: ◦TB 6045 - 450 VOC
and ◦TB 6035 - 350 VOC.

The Waterlox Marine products include the Waterlox Marine Sealer, product number TB 3809 which is used with the Waterlox Original Marine Finish, product number TB 3940. These products are high gloss only. According to the information on their website, the marine sealer is formulated as a traditional exterior penetrating Tung oil sealer/primer and the Marine Finish is formulated as a traditional exterior Tung oil spar varnish that forms a protective and elastic finish against sun/UV rays, harsh weather and moisture exposure.
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rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the marine isn't necessary. glass blocks enough of the sun's light that interior finishes can be used on the insides of windows. the only difference in the marine and the regular is an added ingredient that gives the finish a bit more resistance to sunlight.

yes, clear shellac before staining is very common, shellac is good for this purpose because it sticks to everything and everything sticks to it (good 'barrier' coat). better safe than sorry. it won't affect the finish negatively, but it can improve it if there is uneven absorption of the stain.

just buy a can of 'seal coat' from the hardware store. note that it must say seal coat on the can, they also have a 'clear' in the hardware store but the clear has wax in it, seal coat is dewaxed. the natural wax in shellac will not stick to some other finishes, so you want the dewaxed type. one coat should be fine.

old growth pine has a reddish heartwood anyway, the red in the waterlox might not affect it that much, some trial and error will tell you for sure.

the waterlox will be dry to the touch after a day, so the windows can be handled or briefly laid down on other surfaces, but you'll have to be careful until it cures.

the general idea is to do the finish that needs to look the nicest last. you can easily touch up paint, it's harder to touch up a stain + varnish. so logically you would do the glass, glazing, and paint first, and do your stain and varnish last, and then not touch them until they've cured for a couple of days, and not re-hang them for at least a week, and not have jambs touching them for two weeks. if you scratch or ding the paint while working on the stain/varnish it's easy to touch up the paint when you re-hang them in the wall.

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Neal
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cindybythesea



Joined: 19 Jul 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Cleveland, OH

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Neal,

Thank you so much for your comments. I will use the regular Waterlox, and the shellac as the first coat - dewaxed for sure. I will check the mfger website before i buy. I certainly don't want to create problems.

You are certainly right. My windows have a reddish tinge, and I will check before hand. I'm guessing the color will be just fine as I'm planning to stain with Minwax oil stain (unless you recommend a better brand).

And thanks for the insight on the waterlox and the directions on which to do first.

So, I'm planning to dye my Sarco M with a little brown iron oxide pigment that is made for mortar. Embed the glass, drive the points in, then glaze. Once the glaze has cured, I will paint. I might just leave the stripped bare wood on the inside while I work on the outside of all the windows. Later, go back and finish the inside - maybe next spring.

I have so many windows to do, and the outside is much worse than the inside. I'm not very fast, and I'd like to have them done before fall.

Thank you very much for your help - I would have done the interior first and made an extra mess for myself.
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