Allback linseed oil paint & putty
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griffinhall



Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 6
Location: virginia

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 6:17 am    Post subject: Allback linseed oil paint & putty Reply with quote

Has anyone actually tried the new linseed oil paint that claims to not have a mildew problem ( they remove the proteins that mildew needs)?

Sounds a little too good to be true, no sanding between coats...and here is the really scary/tempting part ,no primer coat, and painting right over linseed glazing the next day.

Claim is that upkeep is just a light coat of oil every 3 to 5 years to keep colors true.


thanks

June
I

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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi June....
Yes, a number of us have been discussing the Allback products from Sweden. The company is just beginning to market their products in this country. There are a number of issues--cost, product container size, questions concerning the compatibilty of Allback products with American paints, etc.

I've seen a number of interestings posts from you lately. Are you a professional in the preservation trades

...Jade
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Charpressler



Joined: 03 Jan 2007
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Location: Sebring, Florida USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jade and griffinhall --

I'm interested in the Allback linseed paint also, but here's my issue: I live in subtropical Florida. We have two seasons, and it's hot in the rainy season, which lasts from about April 15 through November 1st. Though it rains for an hour or two in the afternoon on most days, the rest of the day is sunny. The temperature never drops below 74 F and many days rises to 100-105 F.

My house is a 1926 Craftsman bungalow. It has the original wood clapboard siding; the wood is what we know as "heart pine," old-growth timber now hard as iron. The back of my house faces south and takes direct sunlight.

How would linseed paint stand up under these weather conditions? And -- I hope this isn't a completely silly question -- is there any danger of spontaneous combustion?

Thanks, everyone!

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Charlotte Pressler
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How would linseed paint stand up under these weather conditions?


I don't know. Yours are not only extreme conditions, but they are very different from the Swedish climate where this paint was developed. I suggest you get a quart and try it out on a limited area and see how it goes.


Quote:
And -- I hope this isn't a completely silly question


No questions are considered silly here.

Quote:
-- is there any danger of spontaneous combustion?


Not with paint on the wall, but don't leave oily rags laying around. The rule here in my shop is that the rag should be in your hand or in your pocket. If it's too oily to put in your pocket it goes directly into a container of water. Oily rags are never set down or left laying around.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
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Last edited by johnleeke on Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just finished a round of glazing and painting window sash with Allback linseed oil paint and putty.

I followed the Allback instructions explicitly, starting with bare wood of reconditioned sashes.

I applied Allback boiled linseed oil, heating the first and second applications in to 140 degrees with an infrared lamp and applying more every 5 minutes until no more would penetrate in 5 minutes. The wood was somewhat weathered along the lower rails and absorbed 4-5 applications.

I filled weather checks and open joints with Allback putty, which resulted in a slurry of oil and putty on the surrounding surface. Then I wiped off all standing oil and putty.

Let dry in the shop (60degrees F., 40%RH) until the next day.

I set the panes in a bed of Allback Linseed Putty, set the glazing points, then tooled in the front lines of putty with the place, pack & tool method. This putty is much "looser" (has more oil) than typical knife-grade American putty. It tooled very easily. Some window specialists report that this putty drooped out of the upper horizontal lines when the sash was stored vertically, but I did not have this problem. (2012 update: The Allback Linseed Putty imported into the American market is now formulated with less oil to be thicker and more similar to American knife-grade putty.)

First coat with Allback linseed oil paint, took 1 day to dry non-tacky, but the film was still soft. Mostly matte surface sheen. I also applied this first coat of paint directly over freshly applied Allback linseed oil putty, there was no wrinkling of the paint/putty surface as it dried. the putty surface stayed nice and flat, my soft-bristled brush did not distort the putty surface at all.

Sanded surfaces very lightly to knock down a few stubbles. Applied second coat. Took three days to dry non-tacky, film still soft. Some matte areas, most areas shiny indicating a film building up.

Tested a third coat in some areas. Took 4-5 days to dry non-tacky. Film still soft. All surfaces glossy.

After 5 more days the film is firming up, not soft, but still somewhat flexible.

This was part of a side-by-side comparative field test, comparing this Swedish paint/putty system to our standard American paint/putty system with alkyd-oil primer, oil putty and acrylic top coats. I've got complete and detailed notes and paint schedules for both including all products and procedures, which I will eventually publish.

For those of you who were at the June 2006 Window Workshop here in Portland this field test was done on the sash we pulled out of the mud room here at my place.

I like the way the Allback paint handles and brushes out. Two coats seem like the resulting film is somewhat thinner than seems good, so in the future I'll plan on a full three coats. I have not yet asked Hans Allback about what the final dry film thickness should be. In the coming months, years and decades we'll see how the Swedish and American systems hold up. Watch for results in my future publications.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Tue May 19, 2015 1:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hans:

What should the final dry film thickness be?

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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john...
i appreciate your testing of the products and sharing what you have found so far with us. that being said, a minimum of 15 days of drying for the primer and paint in addition to the cost of the product, makes it unlikely that i will opt to use the products in my window restoration business. i have read the re-painting schedule for the allback paint and, as far as i can recall, it requires repainting twice in the first 10 years then just a coat of allback linseed oil at 5 year (?) intervals thereafter. i look forward to hearing more from hans.....

thanks....
....jade
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The above should not be considered the exact and only paint schedule to use with these materials.

Glazing and two paint coats took 5 calendar days for dry enough to handle. With the Allback putty there was no putty skin-over time and zero handling and storing of sash for putty skin-over. Two coats seemed to be adequate on wood surfaces in sound condition.

It's that third coat that pushed the dry time out to 10-15 calendar days. The third coat was needed on more porous weathered wood surfaces.

My measure for how may coats were needed was to keep apply coats until the entire surface of the dry film is glossy. It's possible that could always be achieved in two coats, for example, by applying more of the initial boiled linseed oil treatment.

By "calendar days" I mean that is how many days must pass for the procedure to be effective. Of course, the "direct labor" time depends on how much work is done during the calendar days. One sash might be painted in 15 days and 40 sash might be painted in the same 15 days. I do not mind procedures that take extended calendar time because I can usually still keep direct labor production high with good organization. I am usually working on smaller projects from time to time, and do not have a continuous stream of window projects flowing through the shop. Longer calendar procedures could become a limitation with a continuous stream and limited shop/storage space. I have seen some window shops the past few years that address this sort of limitation with highly effective sash handling/storage systems, drying rooms/cabinets, etc.

I have not yet tested it, but based on my several years of linseed oil furniture finishing experience, I would expect to reduce the dry-times of Allback paint by 10 to 20% with a drying cabinet/room. The same drying cabinet/room would step up production with American paint/putty systems and materials as well.

My current thinking on these materials is that the shift away from the petro-chemical industry to an agricultural industry product (like Allback) and the health and environmental benefits must now be considered in the economic/business equation. For the past decade some of my clients have been interested in these alternatives. In 2006 ten clients (out of 31) asked for healthy, environmentally and socially friendly product and treatment alternatives. Nine of them selected the alternative, and six selected it even when it cost more (they were willing to pay up to 5% more on average).

To me this is a clear demonstration directly from the market place that it wants this sort of alternative, at least some of the time. So, some projects cost a bit more, even from a strictly business point of view I am compelled to offer these alternatives since my business makes a little more profit on that additional 5%.

(keep in mind I am not saying the Allback products are good or bad, should be used or should not be used. I am saying that they work, and it is possible to do good business using them.)

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There IS the issue of the service life performance of Allback paints, which I have no experience with, which is why I am getting these comparative tests in place as soon as I can.

After meeting and having a couple of good discussions with Hans I'm confident we can trust what he says about service life.

I hope he can find the time and inclination to join us here on the forum.

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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
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Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the move away from chemicals towards more people and earth friendly agricultural products certainly carries a significant amount of weight here. i have been researching locally made organic soy water repellants and recylced latex paints. often my customers are not aware of the availability of the more 'friendly' products and are willing to pay a bit more for them. it's my understanding that the allback pricing is anywhere from two to four times the cost of materials i currently use. the products are shipped from europe and in small containers. i have been in touch with the local distributor and shared my concerns and suggestions. i do plan to at least try the products but not on a customer's project and only in my spare time (hahaha--spare time!)

there are many points to consider when running a profitable business and many are shared on this website. i typically have one, maybe two projects in motion at any given time...i considered the protected space one would need to have while waiting for long drying paints to cure while making all kinds of dust when stripping and sanding window sash. a number of us in the window restoration alliance have small shop areas and that can affect our product/material choices and decisions.

on one project, as per the customer's request, i used a schroeder primer and finish paint (available from 'fine european paints' in vermont). i even purchased a paint brush from the company to ensure consistency. after following the manufacturer's instructions i applied one coat of primer and two finish coats to a sash and was not satisfied with the results. i contacted the distributor and was told that it often would take 2 coats of primer and 2-3 coats of finish to get the desired results. this was 5 years ago and the product cost $40 per quart. not having personal experience with the lasting qualities of the paint, i was not inclined to continue using it.

years ago there were much fewer choices when it came to paint and finishes...there are so many now that it boggles the mind...how are we to make educated decisions? i enjoy doing my own research, alas time is limited. for the do-it-yourselfers who are undertaking restoration projects on the weekends it must be very confusing...again, i appreciate the testing results you share with us john.

i hope to be able to meet hans at the traditional building conference...
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to respond to charlotte's inquiry, i can't offer feedback on allback's paint, but...latex paints tend to 'breath' better than oil paints and, in my opinion, a latex paint would work best in your situation. you may already have a dehumidifier or air exchanger in your home, if not, all the objects in your home including yourself would benefit from either one....when painting, make sure to follow the manufacturer's instructions and prime all bare surfaces before applying finish paint. i typically use an oil primer but considering moving away from it as paint companies are developing better latex products.

after using paper towels that are saturated with oil or solvents i lay them out on the floor (or outdoors in the warmer weather) until they are dried and put them in with the trash on the day i go to the dump...it's quite a site to visit my shop and see paper all over the floor!

good luck!
...jade
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S.Eriksson



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: Victor, New York

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,
Regarding Organic Linseed Oil Paint Drying Time

I want to lay to rest the issue of long drying time when using Organic Linseed oil paint. The longer time is what makes the Organic linseed paint last for 50 years on an exterior of a house. Organic linseed oil paint is a live material, it will always stay somewhat flexible and may feel somewhat rubbery to the touch. It will never trap moisture behind the paint. Never peels or cracks. When you compare the Organic linseed oil paint to Acrylic or any other chemcially made paint, you must understand a few things.
1. Acrylic paint will continue curing after it is dry to the touch. It will loose it's flexibility and start cracking after just a few years. Organic linseed oil paint will never have this problem. It will move sesonally.
2. Acrylic paint usually fades within a few years. Organic Linseed oil pant will never fade. It will dry out slowly. By applying the cleaned boiled linseed oil, the color comes right back.
3. When you purchase a gallon of Acrylic paint in the paint store today you actually are not getting more than 1/2 gallon of paint. Half of the paint will disappear into the air in form of water and various chemcials. Organic Linseed Oil paint is 100% dry weight. It is the same weight liquid in the can as it is when dry. This means that 1 gallon of Linseed oil paint will cover twice the surface compared to 1 gallon Acrylic. This is important in the cost comparison making Organic Linseed oil almost the same price as acrylic.
4. I think everyone agrees that a paint job is usually 90% labor. By eliminating the 90% of the cost by not having to remove any Linseed oil paint, you can easily do the calculation to find out the amazing savings over time you would have by using Organic linseed oil paint.
When it comes to climate conditions for Linseed Oil paint. Linseed oil paint has been used for several hundred years in Europe, North America and other places. The combined history is much greater than all other paint types put togheter. Any location in the USA is great for Organic Linseed oil paint
5. The environmentall issue with Acrylic paint is very serious. Consider that regular waterbased Acrylic paint containes 45 chemicals. Organic Linseed oil paint containes Zero chemcials.
There is no doubt that Organic Linseed Oil paint can solve most of the paint failure issues we are facing today with modern paint. I suggest having a look at the British website www.holkhamlinseedpaints.co.uk
Holkham is a very old british family that owns 300 buildings themselfs. They have worked with the Allback linseed oil paints since 1998. Read about their amazing results. Remember England is one of the worst conditions for paint in the world. Little sun and very wet.
If you want to know how linseed oil is cleaned, this is a great website:
http://www.realcolorwheel.com/washlinseed.htm
Thank you for your time.
Soren


The cleaned boiled linseed oil is sterilized so it dries. Raw linseed oil will take a very long time to dry, therefore excellent for storing paint bruses in.

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Last edited by S.Eriksson on Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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S.Eriksson



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: Victor, New York

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,
I have a few more points about the Organic Linseed Oil Paint.
The last 75 years, the painting industry has made painting so complicated that you have to be a chemist or you have to test all the variables to find out the correct product for your application. Very few people appear to know much about paint, except John.Leeke. With Organic Linseed Oil paint it is very simple and straigt forward.
1. Organic linseed oi paint sticks to any surface that is clean and dry. It sticks to plastic, steel, aluminum, old paint etc.
2. It is a natural rust inhibitor. You can paint your underbody of your truck and it will never rust. You just maintain the surface with the cleaned boiled linseed oil. You never have to prime your nails on your siding before painting.
3 There is NO primer needed. You paint directly on to the cleaned and dried surface.
4. Clean-up with the linseed oil soap
You can basically create any effect with the Organic Linseed oil paint.
Stain: Mix a small amount of paint into the cleaned boiled linseed oil
Clear High gloss: Use the Organic linseed oil varnish
High gloss paint: add some linseed oil varnish into the paint.
5. No respirators are neede when painting
6. No exposure to chemicals. THIS MUST BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS!
Thanks for your time
Soren

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Our mission is to bring Organic restoration products to the American market.
www.solventfreepaint.com www.silentpaintremover.com
www.paintbrushesandrollers.com


Last edited by S.Eriksson on Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
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S.Eriksson



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: Victor, New York

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Organic Linseed Oil Paint. The Commercial aspect for a painter.
One thing for sure is that many painter do not take the chemcial exposure seriously. It is proven many times over that exposure to sovlents is very dangerous. Even short time or low level exposure over time is bad too. The best is to avoid working with these products all togheter. You find it will be a joy to stay away from the chemcial soup.
The timing is perfect. Your customers are reading more and more about the environment and what's going on. You will at some point have to start offering an alternative to regular chemcial paint.
When using Organic Linseed oil paint, you may think you are eliminating future job opportunities. This is very backwards thinking. First, there will be restoration money making projects for generations. If you look at it in a global prospective, 80% of all painted houses are located in the USA.
By using Organic linseed oil paint, You are making it easier for youself down the road by not having to remove any paint. The maintenance is applying the cleaned boiled linseed oil every 5-10 years eliminating the part of the project nobody really what's to do. On top of that you are helping to preserve the structures for many more generations. Can't think of any better way of perpetuating your legacy. You be known as" He was a great painter"
What does everybody think about this?
Thank for you time
Soren



All the products are now here and ready for you to use. Get on the bandwagon
The Advantages you may not have thought about using Organic Linseed Oil paint:

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S.Eriksson



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
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Location: Victor, New York

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linseed Oil Window Gazing.
The organic linseed oil glazing is greatly longer lasting than any chemical made glazing product on the market. You can figure getting at lease 40 years out of a reglazing job uisng this stuff. The additional cost for the organic linseed oil glazing is quickly justified by the fact you can paint directly onto the glazing with the linseed oil paint without having to wait for it to skin over.
The window glazing is also excellent for filling small cracks. Maintenance is done by applying the cleaned boiled linseed oil every 5-10 years. If the color start looking faded, it needs more cleaned linseed oil. The color comes right back. Once the sash has enough oil in the wood, you can anticipate applying the cleaned linseed oil every 5-10 years.
If you get your hands on the glazing you must first heat the container up to about 90 degrees. Mix the entire content, allowing the oil on the top be mixed completely into the compound. After mixing itm, you can store the glazing in your freezer next to your burgers. You can thaw and freeze the glazing unlimited of times.
Thanks for your time
Soren

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