painting bottom of bottom sash
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egizzi



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: painting bottom of bottom sash Reply with quote

What's the recommended thing to do for the bottom of the bottom sash? I would imagine you have to do something because of the exposure to moisture. They are not end-grain like the vertical stiles though.

Come to think of it, what's the right thing to do for the bottom of the vertical stiles in the bottom sash. Mine has a bunch of cracks.
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egizzi



Joined: 05 Oct 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Protecting Jambs Reply with quote

Another question about the jambs and parting beads. Mine are painted, but I intend on stripping them if it makes sense.

Here is the question: Does one strip the jamb track for the outer sash since it is exposed (especially the lower half)? Does penetrol provide reasonable protection to exposed jambs? Storm windows are not an option as I live in northern california, thus they are not really necessary.
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

northern california!!! we had an inch and a half of snow here yesterday in my western massachusetts town that sits at 1900 feet above sea level...

in my experience, many old lower sash reveal a bottom rail that is unpainted...what a testimony to old growth wood that they have lasted this long albiet with cracks that will need attention...i do paint the bottom rail.....once the sash has been stripped and sanded, i apply a 'conditioning' mixture of 40% boiled linseed oil, 40% penetrol and 20% turnpentine to the ENTIRE sash...i don't paint the top rail of the top sash or the sides of the stiles...the sole reason is so that, over the years, subsequent coats of paint tend to build up causing issues with the smooth proper operation of a double hung sash (casements are another story)...

depending on the deterioration of the bottom rail, you may want to consider using a consolidant...my epoxy of choice is Abatron LiquidWood and WoodEpox....the consolidant (LW) wicks into the cracks and the putty (WE) fills the cracks...it can then be painted....

penetrol does offer some protection but i have been using Valoil for unpainted wood exposed to the elements...it protects wood from UV rays and water/moisture...

there are many products available out there...i have updated/augmented/ammeded my methods and products over the years...i do find that the more traditional products that have been around for many decades provide the best results....

painting the jambs is not inherently 'wrong' especially if the old paint has been scraped down to bare wood...it takes many coats of paint--and perhaps sloppy application--to inhibit proper operation...

good luck!
....jade
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MikeD



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Marshfield Ma

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting topic as I've been having a problem with my bottom sash sticking to the window sills. Sticking is an understatement, adhering would be more accurate. Of course this never happened until I switched from oil to latex so I know that the problem lies with the paint. I recently started painting the bottom of the lower sash and the portion of the sill directly under the lower sash with FLAT exterior latex and that helped matters, but the problem persists. If I go several weeks without opening the windows then things lock up (lock down actually). A friend suggested waxing over the paint, which I may try next. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

indeed, latex/acrylic paint tends to stick even after weeks of drying...i don't know how well the 'waxing' would work but i suppose it's worth a try...

i have been using paints from fine paints of europe...i have been impressed with the oil based paints and have recently begun using their 'eco' product...it's a water/oil emulision...i find that paint on paint does not stick....

have you considered using weather stripping at the botton rail of the lower sash? check out the link this website http://www.kilianhardware.com/sprinbronwea.html

good luck.......
.......jade
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MikeD



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Marshfield Ma

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jade, Thanks for the reply and the link. My only concern with bronze weather stripping is that water might become trapped beneath it on a horizontal (nearly horizontal) surface.

The application of latex paint to wooden windows must be a fairly common practice among old house specialist so maybe I'm missing something.

FPOE makes a good product so I'll consider trying the ECO for these paint-on-paint applications.

THANKS

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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we use spring bronze weatherstripping at the bottom rail without any issues...
you may want to try a silicone bulb...it will resolve the paint to paint sticking and give you some added protection as well...it does involve using one of my least favorite tools--a router...

good luck...
.....jade
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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The silicone bulb works great and prevents the sticking situation. Of course the longer you can keep the separated the better. Windows in the direct sunlight seem to pose the most problem as the sun heats up the paint.

If you aren't applying any weatherstripping at all, you can still create a buffer of direct contact by placing some short pieces of the silicone bulb between the sash and sill for months until you feel certain the paint has not only dried but cured.
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MikeD



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Marshfield Ma

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jade & sswait, Thanks for the info on the silicon bulb, I'll explore that option. It also sounds like the problem might lessen over time which is a relief.
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike......
may i suggest ws 10 for your bottom rail and, if you choose to use a bulb at the meeting rail, ws32 or ws 33....i strongly suggest you purchase the router bit as it is set up precisely for this application....with a regular slot cutter, you would need to change/add a bearing and washers for proper height......you can use any router that accepts a 1/4" shaft though a trim router will make the job easier....
http://www.conservationtechnology.com/downloads/Weatherseals.pdf

...jade
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MikeD



Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
Location: Marshfield Ma

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jade, I used a few products from this company years ago and was quite satisfied with them. I had misplaced their catalogue and couldn't recall the company name so I'm very pleased that you posted this. Their products are first-rate. Thanks for the recommendations and, yes I will purchase the bit, it's not something that I want to improvise.
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