Window Procedure: 9. Sash Glazing & Painting (Video).
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to be on the safe side, i would purchase a new can...glazol probably runs under $20 a gallon....have you tried sarco putty?

....jade
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newly



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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Location: Northeast Texas

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have not tried Sarco. I live in a rural area and only thing available is Dap. I have to either order the Glazol online with the chance of getting another bad can or drive 75 miles to get it. I had someone pick up the last can I bought and forgot to tell him to open it prior to purchase.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the hardened Glazol, try this. Dump it all out of the can, trim off and toss out what is hardened, warm the rest slightly (to say 110-120 degrees, perhaps in a microwave oven (safety first: do not contaminate food preparation equipment), mix and kneed to reconstitute, let it cool and try it out. Kneed in a few drops of boiled linseed oil or a few pinches powdered whiting into a fist sized wad to get the consistency you want.
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Tim Storey



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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Location: NW Indiana

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John,

I'm going to try a water based "lacquer" over the (dewaxed) shellac just on the moulding of the interior of the window. I spoke to a Wisconsin manufacturer at the woodworkers trade show in Indianapolis last month, and he felt it was a good combination for looks and durability. We'll see. I also considered just putting a wax on the shellac -any hope?

Haven't been able to "paint to the line", so I used a thin but wide camel hair artists brush and just painted a narrow strip at the base of the putty (at the window), then finish the rest with a normal brush -worked well until I get more coordination.

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Tim S
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 786
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i bought a can of glazol and brought it back to the shop only to find that it appeared very dry at the top of the can...i went back to the store, picked up another can and had them shake it in the paint mixer...this time i got a decent consistency through out....if you asked the place where you buy it from to shake it in a paint shaker, it should be fine by the time it arrives...i will tell you that--although they claim you can prime with oil in a day--you should plan on 3-4 weeks to paint......others have used it and primed in a day or two but i found it very difficult as the putty was still very soft...

sarco can be shipped...i live in a small rural town in massachusetts--310 population and not a single store!! if you'd like to try a small amount first, contact andy roeper at www.winnmountainrestorations.com

good luck....
........jade


Last edited by jade on Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Storey



Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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Location: NW Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shallow glazing rabbets. They are only about 1/8 deep. Is that enough for a good seal, or should I make the putty a little deep even if I go above the inside line?

Cracked stools. The inside is stained/varnished, but the cracks in the stool are large enough that they should be filled. Is there a natural oil that I should use to prolong the life of the wood first -like teak or linseed oil?

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Tim S
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the cracks in the stool are large enough that they should be filled. Is there a natural oil that I should use to prolong the life of the wood first -like teak or linseed oil?


The rule of thumb is to do all woodwork repairs before any wood surface treatments, but it depends on the repair method and materials. Any oily pre-treatments may limit good adhesion of the filler or adhesive, so they should be done after the crack repairs. How are you intending to repair the cracks?

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John

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Tim Storey



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Location: NW Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't really decided on how to fill the cracks yet. I like to save the wood epoxy for jobs that really require it -maybe this is one. The widest cracks are probably 1/32. I plan to stain then finish with shellac then water based lacquer that supposed to stand up to a little moisture. Any suggestions?
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Tim S
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newly



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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Location: Northeast Texas

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John for the tip on rejuvenating the Glazol. I held the blob in front of a space heater to soften it up and only took about 3 or 4 drops of linseed oil per hand full to get the putty working properly.
jim
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newly



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
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Location: Northeast Texas

PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I would give an update on the rejuvenated Glazol. After glazing with the softened up Glazol in Feb., I placed the sashes in an unheated room. I did not look at them again until a couple of months ago when I started back on my project. The glazing had cracked in many places and was not hard. I dont know if this was caused by the old product or the cold temperature but I suspect it was a little of both. I bought new product and reglazed. By the way, Glazol is now callled Glazol Painter's Putty.
How much clearance should there be between sash and jambs? I am putting in a pair of new (old) windows where none were before and will need to widen the two jamb boxes I got out of an old house to fit the 32 and 1/16 inch wide sashes I am using. My existing windows have from 1/16 to 1/8 clearance on each side of the sash. I also plan to install spring bronze when finished.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never seen Glazol crack, even in my comparison "stuff tests" where the lines of putty remain unpainted, some of which are 2, 3 and 5 years old.

Glazing compounds are formulated and designed to be painted within a certain time, usually days or weeks. The paint film slows down oxidation of the drying oils helping them to stay slightly flexible for a longer time.

Occasionally I have left glazed sash for a few or several months, then painted. I've never had a problem and not thought much about it, although it is best practice to get them painted within several days or a few weeks with most kinds of putty and glazing compounds.

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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newly, you may want to ask your weatherstripping question over in the new weatherstripping discussion:

http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5218

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John

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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:53 am    Post subject: Faster turn-around for sash paint & putty work Reply with quote

In the window specialist's shop there is often a push to get sashes painted, glazed and out the door as fast as possible.

One way is to speed the drying by blowing air across the sash, or by putting the sash into a drying cabinet or drying room where air movement, temperature and humidity is carefully controlled.

Another way is to amend the putty or paint with additives. One of the window specialists demonstrating at the Boston conference last March was amending Dap33 by adding significant amounts of Japan drier, whiting, etc., completely reformulating it for faster turn around in the shop. He did not have a formal program of checking how it was holding up over time out in the field.

One downside of forcing the vegetable oils that are the binders in paint and putty to dry faster is that it usually shortens the service life. The oil molecules 'knit' together in a fundamentally different way if they are forced, than if they are allowed to combine very slowly. Slower drying or curing results in longer service life. This is a well known phenomenon and always discussed in the older fine arts materials manuals, and some of the building trades manuals as well. It is supported by the current experience of artisans and artists still working in the old ways with the old materials. I learned these methods and materials in art school and from my dad back in the 1950s and 60s. In fine arts the goal is to make paintings that will last for centuries. Many of the same materials and methods were used on buildings. What do you know? They still do work on buildings. They take time when applied, and they give time in longer service life.

Do we really want to deal with the conflict: modern fast poor work, or traditional long good work? I put this conflict back on my clients.

I'm now offering my clients the choice: Shorter delivery times with shorter service life and shorter maintenance cycles; or, longer delivery times with longer service life and longer maintenance cycles. I educate them on the issue, then let them decide. I see a very slight trend to choose longer service life when other project objectives allow it. On fast-track projects they don't want to hear about it, but I make them decide: if they want radically short delivery times they will have to accept radically short maintenance cycles. (sometimes predicted and measured in months or a few years) No problem for them, they have usually flipped the building by then so it's the next owner's problem.

Of course, this is how the disposable economy is supposed to work, extract dollar value now with no concern for the future. But, is it how we want to work?

How do you deal with the issue of getting the work out the door and still producing good work?

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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: A New Method Of Glazing Sash Reply with quote

A New Method Of Glazing Sash

It is well known that all glass now (both in portable sashes and in fixed greenhouses), is simply imbedded in putty, and kept in place by glazier's points, no putty being now used on top, as was formerly done. It has been found that when the glass lays on the sash-bar thus imbedded the putty soon rots or wears out, and water gets in and not only loosens the glass but rots the bar as well. A most simple plan to obviate this is to pour along the junction of the bar with the glass a thin line of white lead in oil, over which is shaken dry white sand. This hardens and makes a cement that effectually checks all leakage. It is quickly done.

I have seen glass, so cemented, that has stood for ten years, still in perfect order, and it looked as if it would stand for ten years more without further repair. This plan, which is but little known as yet, is of the greatest importance; had I known of it thirty years ago I would have saved many thousands of dollars in repairing, besides having the plants under this water-tight glazing in better condition. - Peter Henderson, in American Agriculturist, from the book The Gardener's Monthly And Horticulturist Volume 28, by Thomas Meehan. (1920?)

Note: this is an historical excerpt. White lead is no longer available and is not recommended for residential situations. The oil, pigment and sand method might hold some merit for testing and development.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
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Last edited by johnleeke on Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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Skuce



Joined: 08 Nov 2009
Posts: 188
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't raw white lead a VERY regulated product? Especially with all the lead fear mongering that is going on these days?
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Drew Skuce
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