Window Procedure: 9. Sash Glazing & Painting (Video).
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Mike-in-Maine



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Fort Kent, ME

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And all this Temp stuff factors into my initial experience with Type M. It is much more reactive to temp than the D33. The primary reason pros dont use D33 is that the stuff takes a month to skin over. We'd all be outta business waiting for that stuff!

I like Sarco-M putty but it isnt the best in EVERY area. I'd love to try the Dual Glaze because it seems to be a better glazing material for the long term... if the skin-over times are under 2 weeks I can handle that.

rant=on

sschoberg, I understand what youre saying and generally agree, but realistically, I must say that starting a small business is one thing, being in business for a number of years is another. Give me a loan for $15,000 and I'll buy a tool called a better workspace. As it is, I learned along time ago that buying the right tools is extremely important, but sometimes there are thing you must adapt-to and make do with... this is more true with one's "shop" than it is with tools.

My shop is deplorable, cramped, messy, cluttered and somewhat dirty. The reason? I have a family and my business is just starting up. There are no finances for upgrading or fixing up the "shop" right now and there wont be until I finish the current job im working on and bring in a few more. Surely you dont think I have endless streams of credit and cash on hand to buy every tool? (and that includes that "shop" tool you say I need to buy to work efficiently and comfortably)

GRRRRRRRRRRR! <angry growl

One thing for sure, I have no extra time to completey re-arrange my entire outbuilding, let alone redesign and build-in... Im lucky to squeeze in time for restoring windows right now.

I think I do a pretty good job considering what Im working with, in, and around. The customers think so too! Of course there is room for improvement everywhere, and in that I agree with your point. But many of us do not have dedicated facilities or much Sq.Footage at all to work with. In time yes...

Rant=off
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Mike-in-Maine



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Fort Kent, ME

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, and my apologies if i seem to be short-fused, I have three websites to run, (one of which is a 32000 post 2700 member forum which had database problems yesterday) a day job and am doing windows at night along with participating in my family (15 yo daughter, 3 yo son, and wife, along with 109 year old house, all of which require alot of time and/or work... not to mention 1/2 acre of grass to mow.... and what about this year's garden?... no time for that as of yet)

Am I stretched thin? yes indeed!


Last edited by Mike-in-Maine on Wed May 26, 2010 11:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2924
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balancing life and work is important. It's OK for startups to be slow and gradual, that's the way I did it, when I left my father's shop in Nebraska in 1971 and moved to New England with a box of hand tools, a bandsaw, one board of curly maple, and $68 in my pocket. (oh yes, and everything he taught me about work and life)

I haven't seen anything here with the need for apologies, unless it makes you feel better.

live on
work on
be on
(or off)

John
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I've said before, angry or sarcastic, its all true passion for life. And no apology needed so please don't. This is a tuff business! that's #1 and its even tuffer to manage a business in today's climate. That's #2. And #3 is I have a whole bunch of respect for someone building (notice I didn't say trying) improvements in his/her life. And if that means filling your time to over capacity and not having enough money for the very basic of basics, so be it. But there's still some basics that you need to do in order to do an adequate job.

You don't need a fancy shop thats for sure. I started in the basment of my home. But I painted and glazed next to the boiler in the winter. Set my putty on top to stay warm I did. I began with just a 100 watt light bulb over head and as soon as I got paid for my first restoration I bought a couple of shop flourescent light. Man I thought I was in sash heaven.
The point is --as you get it spend your money wisely my friend and you'll be fine.

This is a tuff business, but its also a fun business. Challenging, and usefull. I'm staying in not matter. As soon as you finish installing your restored sashes in the jamb you'll stand back and say" my word, I did that?"
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't need credit to run a business! All you need is your passion---and of course some heat for glazing and painting.
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Mike-in-Maine



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Fort Kent, ME

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks J & S,

The reason I started doing this as a business, is because after doing a dozen of my own sashes, and the storms that went with them I DID say "wow, thats damned nice work" and saw the real value in this line of work.

Others who have seen my sashes and storms react similarly. So thats where Im goin.

But as the $ come in I do spend it on the necessities... starting a business from scratch means you MUST go without for a while as you build your shop. Ive got tools, and Ive got space and skill, and the passion and eye. All the rest is just fluff. First thing I did when I got my first payment was build the absolute bare minimum necessity... a 34"x96" sash work table with ultra smooth aluminum top brake-formed around the edges. Its a slick table, with casters and a shelf. THAT was the bare MINIMUM needed to do these sashes, and glazing is a dream because of that table.

Thats how it goes... bit by bit.

And I agree, we dont need credit to do our work. And i wont build my business on money i dont have... so... bit by bit....
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're a good man, Mike. You're gonna do fine.
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johnneilthompson



Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to thank you, John, for all the work you have put into this site, which I found a couple hours ago. I work summers at a camp in Northern Wisconsin that was built in 1933, and practically all the windows need re-glazing. I have started doing a few at a time, having observed a glazer do it lickety-split several years ago, but it took me about 2 hours to glaze a single sash (not including the time it took to prep the sashes!).

I think I'm going to make myself one of your peg and wedge glazing easels now and do some "Speed-Glazing", using the end-edge method you demonstrated and see how fast I can do it!

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing your knowledge!

Sincerely,

John Thompson
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johnleeke
Site Admin


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2924
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John:

Welcome to the Forum, and thanks for your kind words.

After about ten windows you'll cut your time per sash in half. Somewhere between ten and a hundred you'll cut that in half.

Keep us posted on your progress.

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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BillRobinson



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 36
Location: NOLA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:27 am    Post subject: Glazing new windows Reply with quote

We are building a bunch of historic new windows.
They are meant to approximate historic and also meet our performance requirements.

We will be using IG, dual glazed, glass from Cardinal. To meet their requirements we will be back bedding with neutral cure silicone.
And will be putty glazing the completed product.

Has anyone had any experience with this we might consider?

Much thanks,
Bill Robinsoin



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Bill Robinson
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2924
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use ordinary linseed oil putty you have to use details and methods that keep it away from sealants in the IGUs and away from sealants that might be approved for use with the IGUs. Usually this is so difficult for some workers to do that manufacturers of the IGUs may void warranties if any non-approved putty or sealant is used anywhere in the sash.

If you are planning to pass the manufacturer's warranty along to the building owner be sure to have all your details and materials reviewed by the manufacturer.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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BillRobinson



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 36
Location: NOLA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads up John, we are looking into that now.

Does anyone here have a copy of the Sarco MSDS or tech sheet so I can pass that along to the glass supplier?

I called Smith and they are on holiday for the week or so.

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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi bill...
i have an msds for sarco multi glaze type m...i can fax it over to you if you want to pm or email me with your fax number...

...jade
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BillRobinson



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 36
Location: NOLA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Jade, there were a couple of early responders to my query so I am good on the MSDS.
Thanks to everyone.

As John so wisely noted, the glazing manufacturer does not want the putty coming into contact with the edge seal.

While I do believe we can accomplish that I have decided to go with stick glazing. However, because this is a job with a lot of chefs (I say chefs not just cooks) in the kitchen, the architect must approve the changes.
We have done a mock up of the windows with putty glaze and stick glaze for approval.

Thanks to everyone:

I really appreciate the community here and the great benefits it offers.
Much thanks

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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2924
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:55 pm    Post subject: Estimating Putty Needed Reply with quote

Justin writes:

Click on the link below to lead you to our simple and versatile formula which allows you to quickly and easily calculate the amount of putty needed for any given glazing job in gallons or pounds. The formula is available as a PDF and can be easily printed and kept for handy future reference.

http://www.smithrestorationsash.com/windowputtyformula.html

We use this formula to accurately prepare our job quotes and I hope this proves useful to others.

Justin Smith
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