scraping paint from window moldings
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woodturner



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 73
Location: Western Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: scraping paint from window moldings Reply with quote

There has GOT to be a better way!! I'm doing my windows, and spending a lot of time and effort getting the paint off the moldings. I've tried a heat gun, scraper, scratch stock - and nothing seems to work well. I'm seriously tempted to get a matching router bit and just machine off the paint.

What are the "tricks"? Is there a better or more efficient way to do this?

Thanks.
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2924
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a pull-type scraper and grind a profile on it that matches the profile of the moulding. A Dremmel grinder works good.

It takes me 20-30 minutes to grind the profile, and after scraping about 10' of moulding I have recovered the hour and am saving time.

Here is an article that show how to make profile scrapers (PDF file download):
http://historichomeworks.com/forum/download.php?id=135

We covered this at one of the live video conferences. View the replay:
http://flashmeeting.open.ac.uk/fm/memo.php?pwd=f14c4e-9541&jt=00:15:31

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:18 pm; edited 5 times in total
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

after stripping what seems like miles of flat stock, i have been tempted to scan the wood for nails then send it through the planer...i have thought too about a router bit that fits perfectly to a profile...i don't think it is unorthodox or unacceptable as long as you are just removing the paint and not the wood...

i have tried the pull type scraper that steve swiat made for a project we worked on together...it just didn't work well for me--too much of an area to scrape at one time...my favorite all time scraping tool is my short comfy handled sandvik scraper with a triangle blade...i scrape all types of profiles with it, even rounded, by taking narrow lines off at a time...one must get comfortable and get a 'feel' for the blade before becoming proficient at it...i do have a round and teardrop blade but the triangle is my favorite...in fact, i think it shall be buried with me when the time comes...... the blades are not cheap but very easily sharpened with a small nickel/diamond sharpener...

nothing about window restoration is 'easy', simple but not easy...tedious, time consuming and messy...i think there is something to be said about an emotional or mental acceptance in this line of work...by the time we finish scraping down one sash, across town some company has pushed through 300 vinyl replacements.....you know what they say about fine wine.....

a good fan, a good radio station and a damn good cup of iced coffee this time of years helps too.....

good luck......
....jade
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 2924
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Jade writes:
sandvik scraper ...the blades are not cheap but very easily sharpened with a small nickel/diamond sharpener...


I remember being impressed with your diamond sharpener when I visited your shop. Is the nickel/diamond sharpener the one with the little holes across the surface? Are the Sandvik blades steel or carbide? Where do you get your nickel/diamond sharpener?

I agree with your method of scraping just about any profile with a narrow scraper, carefully inch by inch. For a few to several feet I'll use a 1/4" wide flat scraper (slightly rounded an the corners) to go around the concave and convex profiles; on the other end of the same scraper blade I grind a 60 degree angle (just like your triangular scraper) to get into the grooves and narrows. With those two shapes just about any profile can be neatly scraped, though it is slow going. More than 6 or 10 feet and I'm grinding a special profile scraper.

See the attached PDF file, which contains my article on making custom profiled paint scrapers.

I keep the scrapers narrow (seldom more than 3/4" to 1" wide) to make scraping easier than if the scraper is wider. For wider mouldings this means making 2 or 3 scrapers to fit one moulding profile.

I use these scrapers dry, with chemical stripping, hot air gun, infra-red lamp, and steam paint removal.

The scraper shown in the article is the same one sold by our good friend Dave Bowers:

Dave Bowers
Olde Window Restorers
(603) 529-0261
http://www.oldewindowrestorer.com/steamstripper.html



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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes indeed, my diamond/nickel sharpening stones are the ones with the stone and a nickel plate with holes on top...i just spray water on the stone and go to work...

for a scraping chisel, i use my 2.5" x 6" stone and sharpen the chisel ON it...for my diamond blade, i use a tiny 1" x2.5" stone and sharpen the blade WITH it--as in swirling the stone across the blade...my little stone is on a key chain and flips open (think cell phone) so that one 2.5" length is the stone and the other is the handle--really neato cool!

i got both of my stones at my local general store that has been in continuous business and run by the same family for over 140 years...outfits like rockler, garrett-wade and others carry them too...

i put the whole sash in my steamer and when it is aldente, i take it out and remove the putty and glass....i put the sash aside til it dries...the paint has bubbled and lost it adherence to the wood...on the flats, i use my heat gun to remove the paint...on the profile, i can usually get away with a dry scrape......

thank goodness for dehumidifiers and fans in this kind of weather....
....jade
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Preserve This



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Holden, MA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:32 am    Post subject: router bit for paint removal? Reply with quote

I have to question the reality of stripping paint with a router bit. Assuming one finds an exact profile match (or perhaps several bits in combination), aligning it/them with the molding to remove just the paint would take more time than just knucking down and getting intimate with your scaper. Then there's the paint itself. It has the tremendous ability to dull previously sharp edges, including carbide edges, very quickly. And that is twice as true if you're removing lead paint. Plus I can only imagine the noxious stew of burning, smoldering paint dust/chips exiting a router bit that's spinning at 25,000 rpm.
I agree with Jade, there's a certain understanding required, that stripping paint/glazing is slow, messy, tedious work, and no matter what stripping method you use, in the end, it still requires diligence and patience; something very few people seem to have these fast paced, computer infused days.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The high speed that most routers run would surely melt the paint and gum up the cutter in the first two inches.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tested the Prazi Putty Chaser on 4 projects and always found other methods to work better. It's a dry method that generates a lot of lead dust that must be dealt with.
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jomercer



Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 28
Location: MARYLAND

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the scraper I bought with my Silent paint remover. It's got 5 sides--sort of like home plate--but the top point is less than 45 degrees. With that point I have found I can peel off a continuous strand of paint in a groove pretty easily, then flip it to the next side with the 90 degree angle and pop out all the glazing compound in one strike. The flat side between those two points is the ongest---good for large flat areas, and the base side between the two right angles is narrower and helpful for smaller flat areas.

It is a form of meditative grunt work--and actually quite enjoyabel to see the layers of gunk come off.

It does need to be kept honed, though--I got lax about it, and not until I finally sharpened did I realize how much extra effort I was having to put into the work.
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Harold Pomeroy



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Chesham Station, NH

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a high speed steel scraper I bought at Rockler.

I sharpen it about every piece of wood or so. It pays back by making the work neater, and faster.

Sharpening takes 30 seconds, using a medium grit electric grinding wheel, and a medium oil stone to remove the wire edge.

Sharpening to grits higher than 200 doesn't make sense to me, because the minerals in paint remove that edge in one stroke.

Why did the old timers have to put minerals in the paint? To annoy 21st century glaziers, who don't use hand tools? Don't get me going. That, and putting in a random number of points. I'll think I have all the points, but NOPE, someone had to go and make a statement about being different by putting 8 points in this light, and 9 points in that light. Or shimming small lites with glass strips. COME ON! Weren't they smoking? Didn't they have stick matches?

Harold
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jade



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 785
Location: Hawley MA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha about the points! i enjoy consistency in all aspects of my life especially when removing glazing putty...i want to know that exactly every 6.5 inches (or in the center of each perimeter) i will hit a glazing point and remove it..but noooo, someone had to put one at 2" then 5" then 8.2 inches--how inconsiderate!!
i think this calls for bringing back the dead so we can yell at them AND ask them why they used those darned slivers of glass!!

and what about that first coat of black 'paint' that refuses to come off no matter how hard we try?!

....jade
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With certain tools and techniques removing points works so well that it becomes inconsequential.

I lay the long edge of the scraper blade flat on the glass, and scrape out the softened putty with the short edge of the scraper blade. Then I remove the glass.

Note that I do not have to do anything special to remove the points. While scraping out the putty the points come out so easily that you cannot even see the scraper jerk when it meets a point. Keep your scraper "sharp" with a true flat bevel using a "scraper file" and the sharp edge at the toe of the bevel hooks into the edge of the point and pulls it right out, no trouble 99.9% of the time.

Here is the scraper:


(Marshalltown # 19483, UPC: 035965194839)

I use the right-most blade, with the wider of the two ends into the putty, and the points come right out at the same time--slick and quick.

We covered this at the live video conference. View the replay:

http://flashmeeting.open.ac.uk/fm/memo.php?pwd=f14c4e-9541&jt=00:15:31

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:13 am; edited 7 times in total
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woodturner



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 73
Location: Western Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the ideas!! I'll give them a try and let you know what is working for me.
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also see this scraper discussion:

http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7216

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jade wrote:
after stripping what seems like miles of flat stock, i have been tempted to scan the wood for nails then send it through the planer...i have thought too about a router bit that fits perfectly to a profile...i don't think it is unorthodox or unacceptable as long as you are just removing the paint and not the wood...




i won't lie, i've done it on flat boards, but you're kinda trading time now for time later.

because any finish, paint included, will just melt up around the blades when it gets hot, and you'll spend any time saved cleaning the blades or insert mounts off later, depending on which type of blade you have in the planer.

since i use so much old yellow pine i can justify it somewhat since i have to clean the pine sap out of the planer and off of the head every now and then anyway. but that doesn't really make it a good idea, per se ;).
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