Question - Repairing Gouged Glazing Dados and Muntins
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ErikR



Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Question - Repairing Gouged Glazing Dados and Muntins Reply with quote

John,
First of all, great website. So happy to find your resources.

I had a window repair contractor do some work on my 1920's 4-square with casement and double-hung windows on the first floor. A portion of the work was reglazing the double-hungs where the glazing was starting to crack and deteriorate (original glazing). His employee was new to window work, and hacked the edges of the glazing dados and Muntins with a utility knife, in places removing up to a quarter inch of wood. This resulted in a poor/uneven reglazing job, and unsightly damage to the wood. When I asked him to repair it, all he was able to do was lightly sand the edges fo the dados and muntins (to take the surface roughness out of the paint) and he tried to straighten up the poor glazing job without actually re-glazing.

I want to repair this myself, and my plan is:
1: remove all glazing
2: rebuild edges of damaged dados and muntins with wood epoxy so that they are straight (i.e. fill in the worst gouges).
3. Reglaze and repaint.

I've worked with some 2-part wood epoxies on larger repairs and they work really well, but are tough to work with as they harden rapidly, and you don't want to get them on anything other than your work surface.

Can you recommend a useful wood repair product, or an alternatie method to repair what's been damaged? My wife says I should just paint them and be done with it, but the damage is such a travesty in my mind, that it'll never sit right until I fix it.

Thanks in advance,
Erik
Rochester, NY

PS, I can provide pictures if you'd like to illustrate what I may have poorly described.
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rncx



Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 660
Location: Little Rock, AR

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what kinda tools you have around?

the best way, imo, would be to take a cut around them with a router bit, and actually re-attach wood of the same species with a boat epoxy or poly glue.

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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 3000
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please do attach some pictures, and we'll give you some more specific guidance.

Rebuilding the edges of the glazing rabbets by filling the gouges with wood-epoxy repairs should work just fine. The Abatron products, LiquidWood consolidant and WoodEpox paste filler, have a 30 to 60 minute pot life (at 70 F.), which should give you plenty of working time, just don't mix more that you can apply in that time. Clean off all paint and putty in the repair area down to bare wood. Treat the bare wood with consolidant, which will act like a primer, don't get any on the glass or in the joint between the glass and the wood, let it cure just long enough to get tacky. Over fill slightly with the paste filler, don't get any on the glass or in the joint between the glass and the wood and allow it to cure well, 2 to 3 days. Trim off the overfill to be flush with the surrounding surfaces with a sharp chisel. Prime the epoxy and surrounding surfaces. Glaze and then top coat.

As Neal suggests, a traditional wood dutchman repair would work too.

Learn more in the Wood-Epoxy Repair report:


http://www.historichomeworks.com/hhw/reports/reports.htm#Wood-Epoxy%20Repairs

More on painting and glazing sash here:
http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=955

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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought


Last edited by johnleeke on Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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jbmnd93



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently used Abatron epoxy (Liquidwood and Woodepox) to rebuild missing sections of muntins and glazing rabbets. The material and equipment is more accessible to a homeowner than matching profiled stock and quality saws necessary for dutchmans.

Be careful about selecting the right primer though.

Several restorers on-line recommend that sections rebuilt with epoxy be primed with shellac based primer. Their reasoning is that the shellac will adhere to the epoxy better than oil based primer.

However shellac based primer over glazing rabbets will interfere with and delay the curing of an oil based putty like Sarco. I made that mistake once. Normally my Sarco over oil-based primer skins over enough to make me comfortable in about 2 days. When I used shellac based primer over an epoxied muntin, the glazing reached two weeks and still hadn't skinned over. I unwisely primed anyway. The primer built up and dragged across the putty roughly. The primer was tacky for another 2 weeks.


Last edited by jbmnd93 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Several restorers on-line recommend that sections rebuilt with epoxy be primed with shellac based primer.


Could you provide some links to this?

I've been using oil-based alkyd-resin primer and oil-based linseed-oil primer over exterior wood-eopxy repairs for 35 years and not had any paint failures.

Before priming or painting, be sure to trim all wood-epoxy repairs to remove the surface of un-reacted chemicals (amine bloom). If you don't the amines can reacted with the alkyd resins in the primer to form a material that is a lot like soap and can result in adhesion problems.

Ordinary shellac is not particularly resistant to high moisture situations like exterior woodwork. High quality (artist grade) de-waxed shellac may be more resistant to moisture.

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by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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jbmnd93



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the one that influenced me the most:

http://books.google.com/books?id=4MIpp9g-Td4C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=epoxy+shellac+gibney&source=bl&ots=XEn76XbEjH&sig=qgVh50j0TWGhk-dUA0g8duikhz0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vSyBUMFcgvjSAbbJgJAI&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=epoxy%20shellac%20gibney&f=false
(source: Taunton Press, 2006)

The author of the article does a lot of work and how-to seminars in my region, so it was a name I was very familiar with.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes, that's David Gibney's article. David has decades of experience, so if he says it works, it does. The article also shows David doing a wood dutchman repair.
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John

by hammer and hand great works do stand
by pen and thought best words are wrought
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ErikR



Joined: 14 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick responses. Sorry to be so unresponsive, myself. I have been away and have not had the opportunity yet to upoad photos. I do not have the tools or the skills to do wood dutchman repair, nor do I think it's necessary for the damage that was done. I'll take a look at your report, and thanks for the product recomendation. I'll stop back with questions if I have any.
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