Air Blast Paint Removal
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Air Blast Paint Removal Reply with quote

Not recommended on pre-1980 buildings because it can spread lead-containing debris and dust far and wide. Included here for it's 'brainstorming' potential.


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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should be painting a screen door but I can't resist this one---

I see potential for at least three violations just with EPA. Of course once OSHA hears about it from EPA they'll be involved with more fines.

No containment---$37500.00
No Hepa Vac------$37500.00
Open patio door--$37500.00

Total EPA fines for these three--$112500.00. Wait there not done. Assuming it took 3 days for the neighbor to get up enough courage to call EPA and it took another 3 days for EPA to get there. That's a total of 6 days under EPA tells this guys to stop.

6 days @ $112500.00 would be $675000.00 and there would probably be more when they find out the paint chips flew into the neighbors open window, contaminating their home also. Lets see 6 days @ $37500 would be another $225000.00

And if the guy had finished with the job and went home without producing any documentation (and why would he) there'll be additional fines. Are we over a million yet because If he's doing this I doubt he gave the homeowner a "Renovate Right" pamphlet and he's probably not certified or his firm isn't either so thats three more violation or another $675000.00.

Jail time and close to $2 million in the hole, all for a $20000 paint job.
Sorry Honey I won't be home for supper!

That can't be done anymore!
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Mike-in-Maine



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Fort Kent, ME

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now if a homeowner did this, totally different story. The problem I see here is that homeowners can do whatever they want however they want (more or less of course) and contractors are put through the ringer for even the tiniest infractions. I believe its good that homeowners have the freedom they do (im a homeowner!) but the contrast between contractors responsibilities and homeowner DIY is huge and clearly ridiculous.

Why? OF COURSE! (its all been said before) .... LAWYERS AND LAWSUITS!
We cannot sue ourselves so DIY is not touched.

I also feel this method of paint removal is extremely bad, but keep in mind, assuming the paint does not contain lead (tested as negative for lead) he is not violating any RRP Lead regs. His fines are considerably less. The open arcadia door is pretty bad though. And he definately needs sidewall containment, even if there is no lead.

He should have given a lead warning too.
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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget the cost of a new compressor because it will eventually overheat and burn out from all that air-blowing.

Looks post 1978 house... so he is ok...

Just wondering though, if the Big Bad Wolf huffed and puffed and blew the house down would he have had to set up plastic first and post signs and wear Tyvek and have handed out the Renovate Right Lead Pamphlet to the three little piggies first...does anyone know???


Last edited by sswiat on Fri May 07, 2010 10:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mike-in-Maine



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Fort Kent, ME

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

something about the three little pigs paying the big bad wolf for a ... ehem.. nevermind..

i think if the wolf was a contractor, then yes.
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renaissance restorations



Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:00 am    Post subject: Seen In Passing... Reply with quote

[DELETED]

Last edited by renaissance restorations on Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll be interesting in the next coming months who exaclty shows up on the certified firms list. There may have been a lot that applied by aprill 22, so they won't show up for a while. Us included since I sent our app in on the 21st. They cashed my check. Just hope its not the most expensive check I ever write. There's just something wrong with the whole thing. a gut feeling you might say. Oh well time wil tell.

EPA says they're pushing to get firms that applied by the 22 of April approved by the end of June. So by the end of June and through July, we should begin seeing a more complete list of certified contractors.

The closest listed certified firm in our county is about 12 miles away from us ,but there are about another 20 firms that should be on it. Maybe we all waited till the last minute. We'll see!
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have pretty much decided not to turn anyone in. May be a can of worms to start that or worse a Pandora's box. Tit for tat! It all seems so wrong. I don't know, we'll see.
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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still not sure what the certification does? Except raise revenues and create a database. I understand the training but the certification?

If I am a lone carpenter doing work without employees (or firm) and have taken the RRP course do I need to certify? What will be the difference if I didn't? It is just me doing the work properly.

The way I read Module #2 page 7 is that if I am a trained Certified Renovator I do not have to apply or pay a fee.

If I have a part-time helper who only works in the shop would I still not have to certify as a firm?

Thoughts?

Not to mention the OSHA requirements for your employees doing the lead stripping work in the shop . They have a different set of rules including fit test and medical clearance for respirators...making trinkets to sell at craft fairs is looking better all the time....
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or Walmart greeter! Sounds fairly easy. I wonder if they'd let me sit in a chair?

According to what I read in the FAQ's even if your a one man show you still need firm certification. I think the question referred to a sole proprietorship with no employees. And there is no where on EPA's site that lists each certified renovator like they do for the firms, which follows with the thinking. Sorry! But I think there's quite a few individuals that are thinking the same as you.
You can email a question to them on the site. And they don't take forever to get back to you. I asked them a couple of things.

Everyone working in the main shop has to follow OSHA respiratory regs. Blood test every 6 months and Tyvek suits when in the paint removal room. We must also provide a safe dust free break area and that's the only place we can eat or drink. And on and on.

Oh, when on a comercial project, we must have a custom plan of action written on sight, explaining our rules that we designed or engineered to protect our employees as well as other trades and visitors. One interesting item that will obviously change very soon is that OSHA had explained that open air to the outside was the by far preferred method of respiratory protection. In other words no containment was needed on the exterior. Interior was obviously required. We have to keep a copy on sight if someone asked for it and another copy has to be sent to the architect for approval and his documentaion file and we had to keep one at the office. Funny but the whole time I was reading up on how to comply with OSHA I kept getting the idea that the "onsight protection document" was more important than being absolutely correct then following their regs, which just like EPA's are vague at best. Who th H E double hockey sticks knows for sure what to do? These entities have us if they want regardless!
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Historicdoor



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 94
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve and Steve, I'm glad you raised the issue of the individual versus firm certification. I took the eight hour class this past week and our instructor kept telling me that I am a certified contractor the moment I pass the test and that I am to get a certificate soon evidencing that fact. He took my photo and I guess it is being sent somewhere for something. I am not going to pay the $300 firm certification fee at this time, and so I will not take work as a company that might put my company in a penalty position. Not sure the point of distinction here when I am the company.

Several people in our class stated in the open session that were very unhappy that they had signed the class roll since they are now potential targets for the EPA to monitor them...their thinking was that they would prefer to stay under the radar, especially if they decide to not take work that would be considered "regulated work". By "signing up" they gave the authorities a list of potential violators....hummm.

I decided to take the class to see what it was that was being expected of firms doing work that might disturb lead paint. Alot of time was spent on being sure to document every little thing that I do to comply with the regs in case there is a problem. Hummm.

The one question that no one could answer is when did varnish contain lead so as to fall under these regulations...lead paint is lead paint...isn't the point that we are attempting to deal with a LEAD PAINT problem? I often am asked to strip and refinish varnished wood work. Hummm.

On a related matter...I recently found out that I have received a $600 penalty for missing a property tax payment in February here in Indiana which I had no idea was due (hundreds of people I was told by the assessors office were also equally surprised; we normally pay in May and Novemeber)...I am an advid radio/news listener (don't recall any discussion of a February payment) and have only previously had two late payments on anything in my entire 57 years...how I missed this is beyond me. I went to the Dept of Treasury to complain about a penaly for something that I was not aware of...I was told by the government bureaucrat that if people like me hadn't complained about our 200% increase in our property taxes causing a shuffling of the dates for timely payment, then this wouldn't have happened! So I was supposed to be a good little boy, bend over, grab the ankles and take the 200% increase in my property taxes without a word, and THEN the dates for payment wouldn't have been shuffled and I wouldn't have gotten a penalty assuming that I paid on the regular schedule. The bottom line (apart from the arrogance of the bureaucrat) is that I am trying to just run a small business (and I want it to be small) and keep up with all that normally goes into doing so, including the little matter of turning out some product every once in a while so that I can get paid and in turn pay my bills. I have been doing pretty well at keeping to one of my life goals: "keep it simple". Well, obviously, I missed a big one recently and $600 is a serious blow given these times especially. NOW with the new regs, I'm being required to add another layer of things to be concerned with and not just at the job site (where it is a legitimate and worthy thing to control lead polution that I might be creating in my work), but in record keeping, customer education, insurance matters and liability potential....

There was a time when it was fun to be apart of saving the past and helping people restore quality craftsmanship in their homes. To be honest, it is less and less fun, and definitely way too complicated for the way I intended to spend my working hours when I left the corprate world to have a business of my own. It used to be that my major concern was how to do the very best job possible for my customer and make an adequate living doing so. Increasingly, I am being pushed into worrying as much about what I am not doing as what I am doing on several fronts. One of my other mottos is "life is short; choose what you do with each day like you understand that".... hummm.

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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gregory:

I understand where you are coming from as I am in the same boat you are.

I have been serious questioning if this is worth it. I have continued to try and fight the good fight but I have a feeling your area like mine is not the hot bed of restoration/preservation activity.

In any event, I too left a well paying corporate job to do something that I could wake up in the morning feeling good about and put all my efforts into having a successful business. I have always had a love for old homes and buildings which is why I have stayed despite long hours and low pay. I keep working up new avenues looking to get over or around "that brick wall". Now, with this EPA RRP lead stuff it seems really not worth it. I never intended to get into business doing lead abatement but that seems like where I should be heading. I am almost wondering where the line blurs between RRP stuff and lead abatement? Will the EPA soon require that all work done on "target houses" have lead abatement be done first? Nowadays who know?

As for certifying I am not sure if I want to help the government bail out big corporations by me sending in my funds to become a "certified firm".
You are right. This database they will create is now the Rolodex for inspections and attorneys to get information on you. That's all it is.
When Little Johnny's learning disability is discovered and the parents sue the contractor who did the work on their house 10 years ago, how well are you going to be able prove that your "trained" workers (who may not even be with you anymore) did all the proper lead safety procedures especially since you only have to keep records 3 years?

As a one man operation who took the RRP course I think it is ridiculous to pay another $300 to tell the EPA I took the course. I am not conservative no liberal but I see this as just a "hidden tax". In NYS, we have fees being added to everything because no politician wants to raise taxes. It shouldn't cost the government $300 to put your name in a computer but this will help the government grow bigger and hire more inspectors to chase you down and fine you.
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sschoberg



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 568
Location: Plymouth, Indiana

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone that hasn't applied for their firms certificatgion, whether your ten people strong or one, I would spend some time reading on EPA's web site or email your specific questions right to EPA. You need a Firm Certification in order to comply with the new regs and work on pre 1978 built homes. No way around that.

I/we labored a long time whether or not to apply for the Firm's certification, for all of the reasons and more that have been mentioned. I just didn't see anyway not to and still stay in business working in lead endangered homes.(being sarcastic about lead endangered) Ha!

I think EPA has shaken the very foundation of the contracting business in this country. And it seems they're getting away with it. Our congressman seem to be so confused as to how to run a mega country that they're judgement is in a state of "Oh,Oh!, what do we do now boys",

And don't even get me started about the state of the State of Indiana. We were sold down the river with this new proerty tax assessment and its not over yet. And Indiana has a new way of conducting business. They are now bill collectors. They want business to grow but only because their needs are ever increasing.
I received a penalty notice for I didn't know what, at first. But turned out to be a penlty and interest for filing our corporate tax return for 2008 late. They had a fricken tax investigator on this, for a lousy 250 bucks. And instead of just calling and asking if I had applied for an extension they tried to be stupid and sent a letter with an imposed corporated tax, saying if I didn't answer by a certain date the notic would turn into a regular tax warrant. Thats when I called and asked "What the hell?" We're a corporation chapter S so the corporate doesn't pay taxes. And the lady on the other end not only new that, but had a copy of my return right on her computer screen. But Mr Schoberg we didn't receive your return untill blah blah date. And its so much per day beginning the day after April 15 with a maximum of 250,00. and then she said unless you sent in an extension application. Long story short I sent a copy of the extension app and they backed off.

And then there's the fiasco with the Employer's quarterly contribution for unemployment. The norm was 3.6% of total payroll, designed to supplement the state unemployment program. last year it started to climb and every notice worded as to place blame on me. And then last fall they sent an anticipated raise accross the board that was to begin early this year at 13% 13% of total payroll would be an unaffordable amount. That was just one of the reasons we decided to cut back this year. Anyway, state legislature, under pressure from begger business no doubt caved on this and set it accross the board at 5.6%
Things are not good people, both in business climate and home owndership right now. We're being managed and supervised and not protected. Funny thing though, we're being told all thats happening is for our protection. This kind of protection is not needed.


Last edited by sschoberg on Mon May 10, 2010 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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sswiat



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 231
Location: Cambria, New York

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small business is the backbone of this country yet the government is doing everything it can to make it harder for small business to survive.

Protecting us...lets ask the people in the Gulf Coast states about how well they are being protected!

Off to work now!!!!
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johnleeke
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Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 3005
Location: Portland, Maine, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty clear to me. The strategy of the big corporations and big governments is to grind us down and out of "business," to expand their market and limit their competition.

Is there any way to make a living without a job in a corporation or in government?

Can we make a living without doing business? Sometimes I think it's the very word, "business", that distracts us and creates most of the struggle. What is it that we do, and what is the word to describe what we do? Maybe we need a new word for what we do.

I am not saying to completely "drop out" like in the 1960s. We (and I, personally) tried that back then, and it more or less didn't work for most of us. (It's surprising how many hippies became adept at business, even in the corporate realm.) But, what can we do to make a living? Where are the gaps and cracks in the maze of markets and regulations, where we can wiggle through and come out with enough groceries on the table, and enough to help our kids into their life, and enough to drift through our last years.

Which regulations to comply with? Which lists to get on, and which to avoid? These are the questions of the day, and I don't pretend to have the answers. But, like many of you here, I intend to find enough of the answers to get by. Part of my search for the answers are these discussions here at the Forum. I also intend to have a few live video conferences through the summer and fall, culminating in the Business Side Workshop in November. If you'd like to join us, hover on over:
http://historichomeworks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1740

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