Commercial Paintable Water-Repellant Preservative
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SDByer



Joined: 27 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:52 pm    Post subject: Commercial Paintable Water-Repellant Preservative Reply with quote

I live in a very rural area and my access to paint related products is limited.

I am in the process of removing paint from my clapboard siding. My goal is to apply a quality oil-based alkyd-resin primer followed by 2 coats of 100% acrylic latex paint.

Since Iím exposing bare wood, I would like to apply a paintable, oil-based, water-repellant preservative (WRP). There are several water-based products on the market, but Iím unable to locate one that is that is composed of an alkyd resin that is compatible with an oil-based primer.

The USDA Forest Products Lab provides a homemade formula contained in the article at the following link, but the respected author recommends purchasing a commercial WRP.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/finlines/willi02a.pdf

Can anyone direct me to a commercially manufactured water-repellant preservative that is paintable?

Thanks John for the recent OUTSTANDING Windows Workshop in South Dakota!

-Keith John Byer
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith:

I can't recall if I mentioned to you that I had search for a commercial WRP a few years back and found that the manufacturer recommended had discontinued or significantly changed the formulation of the product.

Since then I have not found a suitable replacement product. We make our own according to the FPL WRP recipe--it does work.

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Last edited by johnleeke on Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Doug02420



Joined: 30 Oct 2005
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Location: Lexington, MA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John refers to the do-it-yourself mixture of WRP in the Forest Products Laboratory publications. The original mixture was in the 1978 edition and includes penta as a preservative, which is no longer available. The revised mixture that Forest Products Lab recommends is only a water repellent, and the authors advise using a commercially available preservative. What preservative is John mixing in the paraffin wax/mineral spirits/varnish or Penetrol mix? Or does he apply the preservative first and then the repellent afterwords?

Also--does he recommend a particular preservative if the water run-off (from wooden gutters, for example) goes into flower gardens and landscaping next to the downspouts? Do some of these preservatives may leave toxic traces?

Doug

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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typically, I am now using just a water-repellant for surface moisture protection and borate preservative applied deep within the wood for protection from decay. Borates are no more poisonious than ordinary table salt to mammals, birds and reptiles.

When I need a surface-applied water-repellant preservative in one application I use the FPL recipe, but instead of plain mineral spirits I substitute an oil-based preservative product that contains 5-20% zinc napthnate. It's been a while since I've made it so I cannot recommend a specific product. We used to get it from Lynch in Mass. I don't know if they still make it.

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Jay Bright



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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Location: New Haven CT

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: paintable water repellent & systems for exterior wood-p Reply with quote

1. In the new Preservation Porch Brief #45 that John Leeke co-authored "a paintable water repellent" is mentioned. Is there something commercial in a can available since the 2005 FPL recipe discussion?

2. Opinions about Woodlife?

3. Opinions about oil(alkyd) vs 100% acrylic primers and top coats for exterior woodwork and porch floors.

4. Is it true that no paint can bridge the joints in porch floors as they move thru the yearly cycle of expansion with moisture and contraction?

5.Perhaps, boards should not only be back primed, but a finish coat applied on all sides and edges, let to dry fully before installation??? Seems like the tongues would no longer fit into the grooves and the film would be broken by the fasteners.

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PeteBo



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Commercial Paintable Water-Repellant Preservative Reply with quote

SDByer wrote:
Can anyone direct me to a commercially manufactured water-repellant preservative that is paintable?


You know I read those reports and was looking for a commercial product that was a preservative too. Nothing in the stores around my parts had preservative and was paintable. I saw lots of advice like: WRPs are old technology; they make much better paints and primers now a day that don't require WRPs. I finally gave up on WRPs. I'm trying PPG Preminizer plus for my needs.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm trying PPG Preminizer plus for my needs.


Pete:

How has that PPG Preminizer worked out for you?

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GVnana



Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak to Pittsburgh's Permanizer water-proofing qualities. However, I used it as a base coat for a complete strip and refinish on the exterior of my 1890's home. (Sugar pine and redwood.)

It imparted a beautiful finish to the wood. No problems with overlap onto epoxy treated areas (Smith Co. CPS). Wet-on-wet application of Zinsser old-based primer atop the Permanizer. Two coats Benjamin Moore exterior latex. Going on 5 years and not a single mar in the finish.

I live in the Sierras and we do have extreme weather here.
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EPA closed down the one major manufacturer of napthnetic oils in 2011, which was the common source of zinc napthenate for preservative products.

Here is one potential source:

Zinc Napthenate concentrate is available from Strem Chemicals Inc.:
Zinc naphthenate, 65% in mineral spirits (10% Zn)
http://www.strem.com/catalog/v/93-3037/84/zinc_12001-85-3
This is a concentrated chemical solution, not a consumer product. You have to know how to mix and handle hazardous chemicals safely. You may have to have a chemist certification to even buy it. They may not ship to a residential address.

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Last edited by johnleeke on Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnleeke
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a Zinc Napthenate pre-treatment product made in Canada by RecoChem Inc.:

Clear Wood Preservative
Clear Wood Preservative provides protection against rot and mildew on above ground exterior lumber. It is a clear, paintable wood preservative containing 2% Zinc from Zinc Naphthenate, designed for projects where no colour change is needed or projects that will be stained or painted. Use wood preservative on outdoor furniture, fences, decks, sashes, doors and millwork.
http://www.recochem.com/en/products/wood_preservatives/clear_wood_preservative/item/clear_wood_preservative/

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Clueless Boomer



Joined: 13 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, John––
I've been searching your forum on the subject of water-repellent preservatives and pre-treatment regimens for use on a brand new custom cedar carriage house door I scored on craigslist.

I've been using Wolman's Classic Woodlife WRP for 3 or 4 years on siding and trim that I've stripped down to raw wood in restoring my own 1860's-era home. I doubt that this timeframe is long enough to confirm mildew prevention, so I’m not certain that Woodlife is my real solution. Since a waterborne product also raises the grain somewhat, it’s not ideal.

I tracked down a forum reference to California Storm Stain Penetrating Wood Stabilizer (now sold as California Storm System Wood Life Extender,) and I thought its new specifications & MSDS identified it as a mineral-oil based zinc naphtenate. Thanks for pointing out what I had missed––that it’s actually an oil/water colloidal suspension. Since your pretreatment protocol, developed over years of experience, favors oil-based products, I'm seeking such a system. For my own peace of mind, I'd prefer a pre-treatment from one manufacturer’s system of compatible oil-base WRP + oil stain primer + solid stain topcoat. Can you suggest a manufacturer that offers such a system? Or am I forced into alchemy of my own WRP according to your modified Forest Products Lab formula?

Now, as to my game plan: since my carriage house door is constructed in an overhead format, all its vertical v-groove T&G planks and border trim boards expose end grain all along the top and bottom of each panel. I plan to use Abatron Liquid Wood epoxy selectively as a sealer on all exposed end grain to prevent deterioration of the finish from capillary-action rainwater absorption. Since this door faces a north exposure, I hope to prevent future mildew by following with an overall coat of WRP. Oil-base WRP should avoid raising the grain of the wood or swelling and bowing its T&G planks along each 8’ x 2’ panel, which a water-borne WRP might. I’m told that to avoid tannin bleed-through from the cedar, I’ll then need to apply a quick-dry oil-based primer prior to my oil-base solid stain topcoat . Do you forsee any other problems in my game plan?

John, I know you're reluctant to put yourself in the position of endorsing brands, and I respect your scrupulous non-commercial ethic. Trying to stay ahead of the ravages of time with a paint/stain system has been a lifelong challenge for all of us restorers––homeowners or professionals––throughout history. You’d think a manufacturer or two would solve the science and cash in on our band of loyal followers and word-of-mouth.

Thanks again for hosting this priceless forum and its valuable exchanges.

Steve F
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Clueless Boomer



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, John––
In my continued search for an oil-based WRP, some options are vanishing but a new possibility emerges. RecoChem Clear Wood Preservative in the second post above seems only to be available for purchase within Canada, and not even for shipping to addresses in the United States.

A google search for water repellent wood preservative yielded a General Services Administration historic preservation technical procedure “Applying Water Repellent Preservative to Wood.” In addition to the USDA Forest Products Laboratory formula for a WRP that John referenced earlier in this thread, this GSA document lists "X-100 Natural Seal," made by American Building Restoration Chemicals, Inc. A search of the ABR website turned up an oil-based pre-treatment that contains 10% copper naphthenate, called X-100 Natural Seal Pre-Finish, as well as other compatible oil-base semi-solid stains. In response to my proposed WRP/oil primer/solid stain topcoat plan, the helpful technical rep e-mailed a Forest Products Laboratories specification for the restoration of its own Madison, WI facility. The 2004 FPL specification mirrored my plan, with the exception of specifying 2 topcoats of acrylic latex stain (as opposed to my leanings to an oil-base solid stain.)

This ABR product could offer the lynchpin product in a system to prevent water penetration and mold/mildew deterioration on my carriage house door coating. Does John or anyone else have any experience with this restoration specialty company or its products, or any input on this protocol? Is copper naphthenate equally (or more?) effective as zinc naphthenate in preventing fungus? I would appreciate any guidance that anyone can offer on the subject.
Steve F.
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