Historic HomeWorks Forum

[DBowers]

I had an opportunity to use my Silent Paint Remover over the weekend and was able to completey deglaze a two light sash in about 20 minutes which included most of the paint on the sash as well. I used a pattern of heating the next area while removing the putty from the one just heated. It really did the job in under a minute for each area of putty/paint. I used a foil covered piece of masonite and another doubled up HD foil to cover the adjacent pane when working on the inside of a sash. No broken glass!!

I did another sash with my heat gun and it took about 3 times as long since you have to wait while the gun heats the putty. The Silent Stripper heats about 12 inches while the heat gun only a few inches at a time. I am glad I have both but when you can the Silent Stripper is the ticket. I like it better than the steam for some jobs. The silent stipper can be rented if one of our home restorers if interested at http://www.eco-strip.com/Rentals.html

[johnleeke]

Dave:

I like the way you are tracking the time for the two methods. That is just what we will be covering in the online mini-class on the Business Side later this month.

[RobCoburn]

Dave,

Thanks for posting the pictures--I guess I'm not going to start eating donuts anytime soon. Also the tip on the paint stripper is a good one. I was connsidering a heat gun, but the demonstration at the workshop was not selling me. The silent paint stripper seems like a good solution.


Rob

[DBowers]

I am doing a window restoration on an early 1800 home. There are at least 6 layers of paint of colors ranging from black to pink to green, I am able to completely deglaze, and stirip a sash in less than 90 minutes. I found that cutting 2 pieces of 10" flashing about 16 inches long provides good protection for areas that I do not want excessive heat.
The nice part is that the Silent stripper is heating one area as I am easily removing the paint from the area just heated.
Here is a link to before and after of one of the sash.
http://www.oldewindowrestorer.com/Silent%20Stripper.html
For the shaped areas I am using the scraper sold with the silent stripper. (additional cost) For the flat areas I find that I like my old faithful ugliest scraper purchased at worker supply. It is a 2" solid carbide blade mounted in a metal handle. I like the control that it affords. I am able to remove all the layers of paint in a single stroke or a minimal number of pulls.

[johnleeke]

Your deglaze and strip times compare favorably with mine.

On similar sash my deglaze/strip/clean&prep averages out at 1.7 hours (102 minutes) per sash. (direct production time, not including setup and cleanup time, which varies depending on the number of sash in the run, for a run of 10 sash setup/cleanup might be .1 hr/sash) This is doing the clean& prep by hand sanding, and using the Makita hot air gun and nozzle with baffle as demonstrated at the workshop and pictured below



I've done this a hundred or more times, so my learning curve has flattened out and my production time steadied at this rate. I expect you have done this more like 10 times, so your production rate may drop some with more experience, perhaps reducing your rate significantly with the silent stripper.

[sswiat]

I have some concerns with the Silent Paint Remover. Overall, I believe it performs well and like it. I have had quite a few hours on it (judging by the yellow plastic starting to turn orange) in several different applications.

The issues are:

1) In my geographical area we have many late 19th century homes with radius sash. The radius makes it very difficult to effectively apply heat in a efficient manner. The SPR(Silent Paint Remover) is to large to fit into the radius and apply heat evenly. Also, most of the lower sash have a dado in the check or meeting rail where the glass is "puttied" in. I have had little luck softening the putty in that area because I cannot apply direct heat on it. The paint on the meeting rail will be baking with the putty still hard.

2) Glass breakage. I have not experienced any yet but I have taken great caution not to. Once again, the late 19th century homes in my area have large pieces of cylinder glass (i.e. 30" X 36"). I have to slow the productivity rate to make sure I do not overheat. If the glass breaks I am in serious trouble replacing it. I have a job now replacing "wavy" glass on 6 sash. The cost for actual "mouthblown" cylinder glass or even manufactured cylinder glass is a small fortune (about $10.00 -$17.00 sf my cost). You can see that overheating and cracking can be quite painful to the bottom line. I have been able to keep cost down by "hunting" down salvaged sash with "wavy" glass which isn't that easy because of the large glass size. For the large size of glass I am paying about $35.00. I then have to pull the glass from the sash without breaking (even a $35.00 hit would hurt). The dado is difficult to heat and I do not want to attempt a heat gun. I have had some success removing the 3 sides of putty in the rabbets and pulling the sash apart to free the glass up.

3) I agree with both productivity times. Generally in an 8 hour work day I could strip 3-4 sash. My major issue is the exposure to the fumes on 3 -4 sash in an 8 hour day. The SPR promo literature states that the SPR "does not cause lead to be released in the form of plumbic gases from the paint when operated properly" It does not define what "operated properly " means. The shop does have a very stong odor when being used and light smoke is een emitting from the paint as it heats. In addition, with the unit configuration, the operator is somewhat standing over the "heating" zone and thus in or near the rising path of the fumes. This is somewhat of a concern. To combat this, I am adding equipment to better ventilate my lead scraping room to ensure a fresh air exchange.

Overall, I do like the unit and use it on a regular basis. It is great for doors. I'm not sure I could go to a heat gun. I am considering the Steam Stripper as an investment. I have spoken several times with the company and Bagala Window Works on productivity and I am quite impressed. I like that windows can be "cooking" while you are working on other sash, other jobs or just being able to answer the business phone. I also like that the scrapings are wet and dust is minimal. Sometimes, or should I say always, the cost is nothing when compared to the cost of your health. At this point, since it is a large investment, I am still weighing the ROI including the ability to move the job in and out the door (have to be competitive with the replacement guys!)

[johnleeke]

Steve writes:

>>My major issue is the exposure to the fumes on 3 -4 sash in an 8 hour day.<<

While lead fumes are particularly bad, don't forgett that there are other fumes from the binder, pigments and any additives in the paint.

I think the key here is to realize that any and all of the paint & putty softening methods can be useful. The Fein saw, heat guns, and IR heaters have low initial investment with slower production rate. The steam box cost is an order of magnitude or two greater at $4,000 to $5,000, and if your business model can give a reasonable return on the investmeint it is the way to go. Keep in mind that Ginger reported on carpenters in Vermont who built a steam box out of foam board insulation. I suspect a regulated steam generation unit could be had for $500. to $800. Or, go with the steam stripper product and spend your time fixing windows instead of developing your own.

[sswiat]

John:

As always, thank you for your insight. This could go over to the Business Side forum also.

It is always the toughest to determine equipment purchases. It is always some calculation on cost and thus ROI. The second part is being able to confidentially chase larger jobs and have the equipment which is "one up" on the competitors. At this point, if I land a few of the jobs out to bid, it will become an easier choice.

The second point with safety is employee safety. For moral reasons, it is one thing to risk your own well being but another to risk an employees. On the business side, if an employee develops high lead level illness, I will have a workers compensation claim which then increases my cost and takes my employee out of the work.

I guess it comes down to doing your homework but avoiding analysis paralysis. However, the final decision generally is a leap of faith.

[sswiat]

For those owners of the older Silent Paint Remover I would like to provide information on the unit.

I am an owner of a SilentPaintRemover that was purchased less than 1 year ago. After about 100 hours of use, the unit stopped working. After calls being placed to the distributors, I was advised that I own one of the older models that did not have a overheat protection switch. The newer units have a switch designed to cut out if the unit overheats. Once it cools it can be reset.

The local distributor Viking Sales in Rochester, NY replaced the electronics of the unit with no issues and at no charge. Soren Eriksson at Viking Sales(www.silentpaintremover.com) did advise that this apparently has been a problem caused in part by the European electrical service being different than the United States. He further advised that it is beneficial to only keep the unit in its flat position when in use. When not using (but with heat on) it should be faced heating element out. This will prevent excess heat build up.

In any event, both distributors Viking Sales and EcoStrip where extremely helpful and responsive with getting me back up and running as soon as possible.

As a sidenote, Soren at Viking Sales did show me some interesting new paint brushes and accessories made in Sweden he will be selling soon through his website. They have some unique designs for efficiency and ergonomics. I did purchase 2 new brushes and a scraper for my sashwork which I will give feedback on soon.